Your missing the point, I am not debating Snowden's intentions some humans are a messenger's , I am talking about the result of their actions despite the systems rules your talking about breaking the rules and then having no consequences. AS far as the internal affairs NYPD you still miss the point all these goverment departments, all have flaws but there is a evolution of truth if you try to change the system from without and not from within you will bear the consequences, What did you think that the NSA and the Governoring body of this country would give Snowden a hero's parade down  broadway thats delusional. I am strictly talking about the price of change. So I will say it once more and end it he broke the rules and is paying the price since he has excepted that then he must work it out , the benifit of his sacrifice is apparent.

Best

MK

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From: [address removed] <[address removed]> on behalf of Sab Skenderi <[address removed]>
Sent: Saturday, January 14,[masked]:00 AM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [Bergen-County-NJ-for-Liberty] Snowden is our American Hero.

 

However you like to put it, Snowden sacrificed himself for you and I. He is a revolutionary who upheld the constitution to save you.  Like the founding fathers who were all convicted and charged with Treason from their government so was Snowden.  America was founded on Treason among other concept.  You can take your NYPD internal affairs who are corrupt to the teeth and throw it out in the Hudson River.  They are a laughing stock of a department. 

        A general rule of thumb. Any violent revolt against an established government is considered treasonous by any system of the world, including that of the colonists.  No matter how you justify the revolt, or how fancy you like to paint them.

    We pay more taxes now today the colonists did then.  I am not represented when my government gives subsidies to major corporations, or wages war without my consent. 

 

 

                                                                                                        Sab

 

In a message dated 1/13/[masked]:55:27 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [address removed] writes:

Trump? Not Trump. The rules when you break the rules right or wrong there are consequences. You must change the rules.

MK

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From: [address removed] <[address removed]> on behalf of Sab Skenderi <[address removed]>
Sent: Friday, January 13,[masked]:37 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [Bergen-County-NJ-for-Liberty] Snowden is our American Hero.

 

Right!  Because Trump said so?  Must we agree to everything Caesar says without questioning his majesty?

 

In a message dated 1/13/[masked]:31:25 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [address removed] writes:

Sab, this not addressed to you this a topic open for discussion as I said some think he's hero some not. I would not vote for him as President and do not defend his actions the point is he compromised his oath so he new his destiny so he will have to conform to the circumstances. What he dose to promote his idea is his business.

Best

M KOONTZ

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From: [address removed] <[address removed]> on behalf of Sab Skenderi <[address removed]>
Sent: Friday, January 13,[masked]:17 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: [Bergen-County-NJ-for-Liberty] Snowden is our American Hero.

 

Dear Mike,

 

  I know you are expecting a reply from me on this and so I'm replying now. You are citing federal law that is beneficial to both Obama's and Trump's arguments against Snowden.  You cited federal law but not a single one upholds the constitution.   Our fourth amendment right was violated and it took Edward Snowden to make it an issue.  And because of that, it became an embarrassing topic not only for Obama but for many in Congress, such that the issue of reform was beginning to take form on how to modify the NSA's conduct. Thanks to Snowden.

          Just because a law is created doesn't mean it's a just law.  Every American hero from Sitting Bull at the battle of Little Big Horn against General Custer, General Lee, Rosa Parks, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Patrick Henry, Jesus Christ, Mohammed, Moses, Ghandi, Malcolm X all broke the law and if caught some of these would have been executed on the spot.  Those that seek him are breaking the law themselves.  You are citing laws that statists create to protect their breach of your privacy, your liberty and your right from government intrusion.  Laws that are unconstitutional.

     He is a whistle blower as was Daniel Elsberg when he exposed the Pentagon papers which helped to stop the Vietnam War.  Remember when the hero Bradly Manning tried to expose a war crime. He was put in jail and tortured where he still is.  Where is justice?

        Another issue is he was not protected under the whistle blowing act. So that wouldn't have helped him if he was to complain to someone. It would be business as usual. Almost like we are discussing matters here.  How many times have I wrote or complained to a representative about an action or policy that I'm against and nothing happens.  Sometimes it takes civil disobedience to get things done and that's exactly what he did.  It takes brave people to challenge the system to expose an injustice.  He is a very intelligent man, and for me I would vote for him to be my president any day.  Remember this country was founded on Treason, not on taking the matters to the King and letting him decide.  Not treason against liberty, but treason against an tyranny. 

                                                                    

                   Ron Paul on Snoweden Video   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV7yobI1m4o

Ron Paul: Edward Snowden Is A Hero www.youtube.com Air Date: Jan. 22nd, 2014 This video may contain copyrighted material. Such material is made available for educational purposes only. This constitutes a 'fair use' of ...

         

                                                                                                                Sab

          

  

 

In a message dated 1/13/2017 8:39:51 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [address removed] writes:

SNOWDEN HERO TO SOME LAW BREAKER TO OTHERS> you decide.

Snowden is he Hero, to some, but He broke the law and new it. He should have resigned and in advance seek private council  along with congressional support to present his case on National Security Issues and their constitutional breech he was Sworn employee of the Government in NSA knowing his responsibilities and his oath. He was not a kid. But he decided to take matters into his own hands and knowing must bear the out come.  He broke the law! If you want to debate the law then don't break it.

As Trump said recently Roe vs Wade is the law until it is not.  Debatable but not to be broken. If you are driving a car at 3:00 am and you come upon a Red light and you make a choice to run it because there is no traffic that could result in an accident you may succeed in getting away with it  but you are breaking the law and you know it. If your caught you will charged. 

Article on Case.

Every adult, most children, and criminals in particular, understand there are consequences that logically follow actions that are deemed unacceptable by society regardless it is a child stealing their sibling’s favorite toy or an armed robber holding up a convenience store. It is doubtful that every American agrees with every law, but they certainly understand they are necessary to preserve order and protect the people from harm whether it is from criminals or foreign entities threatening national security.  The intelligence community is beholden to follow the law of the land, and one of the laws they swear to uphold is keeping top secret information out of the hands of unauthorized individuals whether they represent a foreign government, a terrorist organization, or media outlet looking for the next big headline. Edward Snowden was charged late last week with breaking the law and his flight to a foreign territory before charges were even filed imply that he was well aware he violated his top secret security clearance and deserved the criminal complaint filed against him.

The criminal complaint against Snowden that was released cited 18 U.S.C. 641 Theft of Government Property, 18 U.S.C. 793(d) Unauthorized Communication of National Defense Information, and 18 U.S.C. 798(a)(3) Willful Communication of Classified Intelligence Information to an Unauthorized Person; the two latter charges fall under the Espionage Act for “giving national defense information to someone without a security clearance and revealing classified information about communications intelligence,” that by all accounts certainly describe Snowden’s actions leading to the criminal complaint and extradition requests to authorities in Hong Kong where Snowden was hiding out. It is unclear where Snowden will end up finding “political asylum,” but his contention the Justice Department is seeking him for political retribution is both a pathetic attempt to justify his criminal acts and to garner asylum from a foreign entity.

Shortly after the criminal complaint was announced, a reporter assisting the former contracted security employee stated Snowden’s revelations are “not espionage in any real sense of the word,” but according to 18 U.S.C. § 798, “Whoever knowingly and willfully furnishes, or otherwise makes available to an unauthorized person, or uses in any manner prejudicial to the safety or interest of the United States any classified information” is guilty of espionage. It is beyond comprehension that Snowden did not know he was “knowingly and willfully” making available classified information or he would not have went into hiding and it begs another question; what measure of guilt does the “unauthorized persons” receiving “classified information” have to answer for? However, the point is the government’s complaint against Snowden is founded in the U.S. Code, and is not some devious Obama-driven political vendetta some in the media intimate is the real impetus for the government’s complaint.

It is interesting that a clear “breach of the law” according to one media outlet is so easily conflated with “basic theories of civil disobedience” to “enable debate and reform.” It cannot be both ways because either Snowden broke the law and his top secret security clearance, or he did not, and the U.S. Code is quite clear that Snowden did, indeed, break the law as well as abuse his security clearance. According to top intelligence officials’ report to Congress last week, the NSA programs Snowden exposed to the world “helped foil more than 50 terrorist plots since Sept. 11, including one to blow up the New York Stock Exchange” and it answers the question “in what conceivable sense are Snowden’s actions espionage,” or how was the “information to be used to the injury of the United States?” Now Snowden’s paramours are shifting the argument that not only did Snowden not do anything that could bring injury to the United States, but he performed a public service and acted on his good conscience that, by the way, is the same arguments in defense of another young man whose conscience drove him to steal and reveal Department of Defense information. Doubtless, every spy, traitor, and even common criminal acts on their conscience, but it does not excuse criminal behavior and regardless the issue at hand, Snowden broke his covenant with the government when he knowingly revealed sensitive information to “unauthorized persons” and his flight from authorities gives a strong indication that he knew he broke the law.

What do you think? Interesting case?   MKOONTZ

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