A.D.E.P.T. Debate Message Board › How Many Ten-Commandments are there ?
The REAL 10 - Commandments !
The arguments surrounding the 10 Commandments have kept me
in amusement for most of my life... as a very young frightened christian
I always wondered why it seemed no one bothered to count them ? I
mean, REALLY count them. One of my compulsions is counting things,
so it seemed a natural curiosity to me. There are a minimum of 17 at
least, probably more. Depends on which bible.
And why is it, that we all know there were two sets of these
commandments supposedly carried down by Moses, but none of my
Christian schoolteachers seemed to want to discuss this at all... so as
usual, I used one of my mandatory bible book report opportunities.
This, story is how I created my first "debate Qualifier".
What that means is, I reached a point where the people who actively
participated in debating religion with me, didn't seem to know much
more than the very basics. The problem with this is that, if one advances
past the basics, you will find yourself in an eternity of discussing the
same thing over, and over, and over... and, it will be one of the first
few things you ever learned about that topic. Basically, HELL.
I wanted to discuss beyond basics. That seemed to be where all the
good stuff was anyways.
As I became more involved in my hobby of debate, I noticed that I
should have some type of qualifier before I debate people to make sure
they are not going to waste my limited time on a point I had debated
already, many many times, and often, something I had finished
analysing years ago. really boring to me.
Whenever I did a book report on the bible I did not just read the
parts the teacher listed, I read the entire topic. That is where the
trouble usually started.
And this report was on "The 10 Commandments" !!!!
So, I go to Exodus 20:1-17. THE 10 Commandments right ?
maybe... There, are the words I have seen on all the courthouse
walls, school walls, statues, etc etc.
One through Ten, 1- No other gods, 2 Carved Images,
3 Name in vain, 4 Sabbath Holy, 5 Honor Parents, 6 No Killing,
7 no Adultry, 8 Stealing, 9 False witness against neighbor,
10 Coveting... right, good etc etc.. BUT !!!!
Moses Destroyed this set ! dashed it to the ground,
breaking them into pieces ! so, do they count ?
The godly teachers told me that "they Certainly Did Count" !!!
Oherwise, Why would we re-create them over and over ?
but, then, why did god give an almost entirely DIFFERENT
set to Moses the Second Time Around ?
Only Three of the original 10-Commandments made it into the
second set. So we have 17 Ten-Commandments. right ? wrong ?
PLEASE !!! read more !!!
~ or ~ is the entire First-Set of Ten Commandments Invalid
since Moses Broke them upon the ground ? so, who collected up
these pieces, saved and protected them so that after 2,000 years
we know what they were ? duh. and why are we revering "these"
10 commandments, when an entirely different set of
10-Commandments rest in the Arc of the Covenant ???
wouldn't the 2nd set be THE set ?
And, we have to label Exodus 34:01 a total "lie"
It is not until Exodus 31:18 that the KJV of the Bible says that
God gave Moses Two tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
In between what we like to call "the Ten Commandments" and
that verse, are Dozens and Dozens of "thou Shalts" ... Aren't those
commandments also ? and as an aside... Immediately after what
we call the 10 Commandments was how to buy slaves and to sell
your daughters. OK .... Moving deeper into "Morality" .
Then, in Exodus 32:19, Moses breaks these Tablets the "instant"
he sees the idols his people made. So, they broke a commandment
that they had not been told about ?
Then Moses lieutenants killed 3000 men ( Ex 32:28 ). for breaking
a law they were not told about ? ( nuther story )
THE 10-Commandments which were placed into the
Arc-of-the-Covenant, are written in Exodus 34:11, where the King
James Version States...
"Observe thou that which I command thee this day: "
After which, I counted 12, Ten-Commandments, and commandment
# 5 has a "part b" ... so, it could be 13 Ten Commandments. ???
After this bible book report, I started asking Believers, "if they wanted
to debate with me, They had to tell me, how many 10-Commandments
were there ? "
If they Replied "10", I told them that they were not qualified to
discuss that part of their religion. and I Peacefully moved-along.
If you would like a fun activity when cable TV lets you down... count
the "commandments" after Exodus 20:01 and before Exodus 31:18, and
see how many declarations that you would call "commandments". and,
don't be concerned if you get a different number than everyone else. :-)
The great part is, only YOU, would know the true number of Ten
Commandments that exist in the most popular version of the christian bible ...
Has anyone considered the actual stone tablets described in the 10 Commandments ?
since the bible never really gave any specific sizes, all we have to go on are all the
images of them by artist and theologians.
but for example, "IF" someone could make stone tablets the commonly shown
sizes of about 14 x 24 " and ONLY 1" thick, They would weigh around 80 pounds.
40 Pounds each. but probably more...
Moses was said to be old, but he was pretty tough if he hoofed 80 pounds of
rock up a mountain and back down. especially after no food or water for 40 days
like it said in the bible. since nearly any human would die many times over to
have gone that long without water, we are FORCED to assume that god-magic
was being used in this story.
Then there is the issue of the bible stating that moses "Chiseled" The tablets out
of native stone. well, Chiseling typically involves lots of hammering and we are now
forced to assume that moses, discovered some very special rock somewhere, that
could withstand severe hammering, while only being one inch thick. this would by
any geologist reasoning be absurd. but geologist are very educated people. but at
least, once again, we can fall back upon "god-magic" . ( gotta love the god-magic
Back up argument. )
I went hiking once, up a little mountain called Black Mountain in NC. I was in great
shape at 32 years old, fed with high nutrition energy bars, pleanty of water, etc.
I carried a 40 lb Pack, 1/4th of my weight... which honestly, kicked my butt by
the time we were near the top of the little Black-mountain in NC. about 1,400
ft climb. I thought some during the hike about the moses stones, weighing probably
over 100 pounds, carried by a very old guy, poorly fed, without food or water,
and as in my youth wondering, "would it have killed God to have invented paper ?"
That would have been at least, a useful miracle. unlike appearing on toast, or a
shower stall stain.
It always boils down to how it's defined.
Your definition goes a step further than 43Alley
One other thing. The commandments in Exodus 20 are spoken and no where called the 10 commandments.
I would argue that Exodus 20 Commandments were branded the 10 Commandments through Christian tradition and was more of a "branding" decision as the goats milk list contains way to many commands that had nothing to do with human morality.
There is my $0.02
the way I ponder it, with the very clever men who decided what went into the Bible and
what was tossed, probably found the actual 10 Commandments to be a little bit embarrassing,,,
can you imagine how horribly embarrassing the things must be that they took out ?? LOL
but maybe they weren't that clever after all, if you read the entirety of the story while
Moses was at Mount Sinai, there are many inconsistencies even involving simple math...
at one point God tells Moses bring two tablets up the mountain, at another God says come
up the mountain and I will give you three tablets... and the biblical set of 10 Commandments
the second set you have to manipulate the text to get 10.. the reader either has to forget
one or two or double up on a couple to get an even number of 10. these people couldn't
even count properly, and they found themselves in the position of dictating the basic religious
edicts of billions of people...
The very complete long video I'm working on about the 10 Commandments, will really
put this bizarre story under a bright light, and illuminate the ridiculous comedy that it is.
Edited by Tom Walters on Jul 25, 2013 2:36 AM