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Re: [atheists-55] Fwd: [EastsideAtheists] British commedian comments on idea of mosque at Ground Zero

From: Stu C.
Sent on: Monday, July 19, 2010 12:50 AM
Sorry, but you're wrong. Bin Laden actually denied involvement 6 days later when interviewed by Al Jazeera.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/inv.binladen.denial/

And if he was the head of a terrorist organization, wouldn't he claim responsibility even if he didn't do it?

A softened skeleton would cause some bowing and maybe the collapse of the floors (not the solid inner core) but you missed my point about resistance. Each time the sections above collapsed on a floor below, that floor would resist for a moment before giving way, especially the farther it got from the impact zone.

And bldg 7 was 47 stories, had minor fires and was hardly struck by debris. Building 6 was between it and tower 1 and even that didn't collapse. Have you even seen the video of it (7) falling?

Look into it like you did atheism. It might sound crazy but then you realize the establishment and general populace are being fooled.

And don't liken it to the birthers. All they have to go by is an arab middle name and a bias against hawaii.


**My apologies for clogging the inboxes of those who have already turned off MSNBC and woken up beyond just religion.






On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 11:05 PM, Hos <[address removed]> wrote:
Sounds pretty much like birther conspiracy theories.
I learned to be skeptical of religion. And conspiracy stories alike.
Bin Laden may not have been charged, but he sure has claimed credit for what he did.
The building were not in free fall. One the softened skeletons could not hold the top parts, they came down and crushed the bottom parts, which were not built to withstand that kind of force.
The one thing that certainly held, security and all else failing, was the laws of physics.

On Jul 18, 2010, at 10:46 PM, "Stu C." <[address removed]> wrote:

The actual irony is that atheists are so because they've woken up to the fact that what they've been told is a lie, yet some of us still buy what the media tells us.

By "most protected' I did indeed mean militarily because it's standard procedure to have F-16s investigate off-course jetliners/planes yet none did so that day. And DC/Langley is a no-fly zone so how did a jetliner cruise in and bypass the Pentagon's surface-to-air missiles? Thought of that?

And how did we know they were boxcutters? Who said? One cell phone call from one flight, maybe? And 2001 phones from 30,000 feet could not make clear calls, let alone calls at all. And who calls his mom and says "it's me, mark bingham". Give me a break.

Go to the FBI website. Bin Laden has still not been charged with 9/11.

And the 19 "hijackers" are nowhere on the passenger list and one of their passports was "found" in the tower wreckage. Are you kidding me? Unscathed passport? Think about it.

And there is indeed motive for building 7 considering it housed CIA and NSA offices/documents. But, that aside, can you explain molten steel 5 weeks after 9/11? Well, the 9/11 commission report didn't even mention it. Not important? And don't say that kerosene melts steel. And even if the planes did weaken the beams to cause the pancake effect, how did the laws of physics not apply that day so that no resistance was encountered on the building's way down? How was it near free-fall speed?

Calm down for a second, both (or more) of you and actually think about what happened. The Project for a New American Century even said that real and effective change (these are neo-cons like Wolfowitz and Cheney) would not occur unless a cataclysmic event were to happen "like a new pearl harbor".

Bush et al needed the political clout that 9/11 afforded them. We could've invaded Iraq/Afghanistan without them but it wouldn't have been at that scale. It would've been like S. America, CIA covert style to try to depose their leaders, not rush in and build a base right away.

Read any of David Ray Griffin's books or take a small glance at Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. These are, again, architects and engineers who have posted blueprints, explanations for molten steel, etc. that refutes the NIST and Popular Mechanics explanations.

http://www.ae911truth.org/

If nothing else, this was a massive intelligence failure yet no one was fired at all. Ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin incident? McNamara himself admitted that was fake yet that was our reason for Vietnam. USS Maine and the Spanish-American war? There is historical precedent and that at least warrants a few minutes of your attention. I'm an atheist, which should tell you I have an open mind. Too open? Look into it and refute me, then. Please. Otherwise know that I'm not closed-minded and have done some research.

At least look into it before huffing up like the religious zealots we agree to disagree with.?


*Here's your quotation again for those who missed it:

"I want to note that I'm not complaining about any of this, I like it this way. I don't mind 3000?people exploding every once in a while, that's just the price of freedom."


What freedom? How much is college, health care (if you can get it), housing, medicine? Do we even have a true democracy ("here, pick one of two candidates we've given you"). We've it better than some countries, but do we get maternity leave, vacation, time with family? We have the freedom to consume what we want, or almost. That's not freedom, though I suppose it's freedom by comparison. You're right.





On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 9:05 PM, Hos <[address removed]> wrote:
"Truther" is about the biggest irony I've ever heard.


On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 8:21 PM, Doug <[address removed]> wrote:
Also, as long as I'm ranting we are NOT "the most heavily protected nation in the world".? Unless you are talking about?our military which we do spend a ridiculous amount of money on. If you are talking about protected against terrorism though you are kidding yourself.??Hundreds of thousands of people literally walk across the mexican border every year along with tons of narcotics and god knows what else.? I literally accidentally crossed into canada from montana one time without even noticing it. Just driving in my car not sneaking through a tunnel or something.? We also live in a still?relatively free country where you can easily purchase firearms and make you own explosives using google and home depot.
?
I want to note that I'm not complaining about any of this, I like it this way. I don't mind 3000?people exploding every once in a while, that's just the price of freedom. Fun fact: more people die in accidental drownings every single year than died on 9/11.? Ten times as many die in car accidents yearly.??So for all those trying to?throw our rights down the tiolet over terrorism?build a bunker and crawl inside.??You can have a?nice safe and boring life within,?let the rest of us have our freedom.
?
-Doug
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 7:52 PM, Doug <[address removed]> wrote:
Oh shit... we got a 9/11?truther.
?
First of all you can get plastic box cutters. You can get ceramic knifes (and plastic ones to).? You can make things that cut people without using materials other than metal.
?
Yes a third building collapsed after the two 110 story buildings?right across a 2 lane street which shared the same foundation and were connected to it on several underground levels and?by a pedestrian?bridge?above the street?collapsed from being hit by fucking planes.? That's a lot more believeable than any other wacky theory to explain it's collapse. Also, there is no motive to collapse a third building, two wouldn't have been enough? No one even gives a fuck about WTC 7. We could have invaded afghanistan iraq whoever the hell we wanted even if wtc7 was left standing.
?
Everything else you were talking about might have sounded like a somewhat reasoned stance except for that crazy ass shit. Which just reveals you for the fool that you are.
?
Also, I'll tell you why "extremists" oppose the US and carried out that attack.? One our troops and contractors which were stationed in kuwait and saudi(the "holy" land).??Two, Israel, Israel, Israel, THE?THEOCRATIC APARTIED STATE OF ISRAEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
?
Is the terrorist threat blown out of proportion to keep the defense industry going and justify wars which were really about grabbing resources? YES.? However,19 crazy muslim arab mother fuckers did get on planes and fly into those buildings. That is a fact. Period!!
?
-Doug
On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 7:08 PM, Stu C. <[address removed]> wrote:
Don't spread this idiocy. Granted, religion is silly and merely a comfort for those unable to see or believe greater truths but Islam is merely the "threat du jour". Who's giving them the permission to build a mosque there? Are muslims in control of NY government? Grow up. And the U.S. is a solid ally with Saudi Arabia. The 9/11 terrorists (7 of whom are still alive) were all from Saudi Arabia, and yet we're entrenched in Iraq and Afghanistan. See beyond the media garbage.

Fight religion, please, but let's pick our battles and not spread hate and intolerance when it isn't needed. Let them build a mosque, for crying out loud. Have any of you met a muslim?

Disagree? Look up "blowback" for a reason why muslim extremists (outside of the fake "al-qaeda" CIA creation) would want to hurt Americans. Key terms in your search should include: Predator drone bombings, Iraqi/Afghan civilian casualties, Israeli military suppliers, the Carlisle group, U.S. connections to the Bin Laden group, for starters. Osama bin Laden and his family would not be where they are (billionaires) were it not for big business, primarily U.S. business and to think he'd defect after the U.S. "helped" free Afghanistan from the Soviets is silly. The man was visited by CIA in Dubai in June of 2001 during a hospital visit.

Keep fighting religious nuts like the Texas School Board but hold off on attacking the current "other" until you realize (a) why extremists would oppose the U.S. in the first place and (b) the U.S. is the most heavily protected nation in the world and (1) boxcutters are definitely made of metal (metal detectors) (2) a third building in the WTC complex collapsed on 9/11 without sustaining major fire damage and certainly without being hit by a plane, just two reasons why we're being lied to. Why didn't we invade Saudi Arabia after 9/11? That's where the terrorists were from! Saudi Arabia was already an ally and we already have our hands on their oil. The U.S. wanted Iraqi oil, Afghan lithium and a way to surround Iran.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/14/world/asia/14minerals.html

Please research this a little bit before launching into any tirades.

I would have done the same before I stumbled upon this other information.





On Sun, Jul 18, 2010 at 6:31 PM, Norm <[address removed]> wrote:




-----Original Message-----
From: Candice <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Sun, Jul 18,[masked]:20 pm
Subject: [EastsideAtheists] British commedian comments on idea of mosque at Ground Zero

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/06/pat-condell-on-ground-zero-mosque-is-it-possible-to-be-astonished-but-not-surprised.html

Plain speaking -- from across the pond.

Candice


--
Candice? Bradley, Ph.D
[address removed]

??`?.??.???`?.?><((((?>
`?.??..???`?.??.???`?.?><((((?>
??`?.??.???`?.?><((((?>?




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