Re: Alcohol & Censorship.... [vegetarian-534] Announcing 2 New Meetups: Guys Brew and Girls Tapas Party

From: Norma
Sent on: Tuesday, February 16, 2010 11:47 AM

This is Norma and I agree with Ann.  I have been in other vegetarian societies in several cities in U.S. and most of the times they have wine/beer in their gatherings.  I don't see anything wrong with a glass of wine, besides, in recent studies they found it is good for your health, especially red wine. And I even suggested to Lisa if it is OK to bring a bottle of wine in some gatherings.

I want to thank Lisa too for her effort in bringing awareness in this community about compassion to animals and to have a more noble diet. 

Take care,

-----Original Message-----
From: Ann <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Tue, Feb 16,[masked]:05 am
Subject: Re: Alcohol & Censorship.... [vegetarian-534] Announcing 2 New Meetups: Guys Brew and Girls Tapas Party

Hello Lotus,

I have read the threads so far on this issue you bring up about alcohol at the veg meetups.  I have pasted the thread following this one, at the end of this message so they are all in one. I would like to respectfully respond.

First of all, I would like to let you know who I am. I am 56 years old, a mom or 3 and grandma of 2, a vegan (originally for health, continuing for health AND ethical reasons), and I was raised by 2 alcoholic parents, so I too have lots of experience with alcohol and alcoholics. I am not an alcoholic and I seldom drink, even when I am attending an event where others are drinking.  Our son-in-law is a rock musician and we often attend his shows in bars, where I almost never drink, while others do.  I have a low tolorance for people who drink to the point where they are mean (that was how my dad behaved) or stupid, and no tolorence for people who drive while intoxicated.  I don't mind attending an event where other adults are drinking and behaving in a respectful manner.  Personally, I don't like the way I feel the day after, when I have had more than one or two drinks, so I "choose" not to do that to myself.  It bothers me to see vegans drink coke or eat hydrogenated oils (the later will eventually kill them, which doesn't reflect well on the vegan lifestyle), but I wouldn't boycott events and isolate myself from otherwise fun activities with nice people, because of it. 

That said, doctors will tell you that it is actually good for you, a woman, to have a drink a day (2 for men). More than that is not good.  Your choice to totally abstain from alcohol, is your choice.  I have totally respect for that. 

I can tell you that being a vegan has nothing to do with the choice to abstain from drinking alcohol.  Eating an animal or their by products, causes suffering and death to an innocent being and is certainly unhealthy for the consumer.  Having a drink or 2, may or may not harm the the consumer.

You brought up AA, which has nothing to do with a vegan meetup.  It doesn't matter if the local AA or MAD groups would "be shocked" that some vegans drink at vegan meetings. I'm sure I would find it disturbing that they serve dead animals at their meetings. As a child of alcoholics and a vegan, I don't go there and tell them how to conduct their meetings.  A member of my vegan meetup, who also happens to be an AA member, often has vegan gatherings at his home, where wine is available for attendees to drink, if they chose to drink it. He simply doesn't drink it himself. Everyone who does, behaves in a respectful manner.  That's what adults do. 

Also, on one hand you are complaining about your thoughts and concerns being censored, while on the other you want to control what others do at the meetups.  I just thought I'd point that out.  It doesn't make sense to me that you want people to repsect your choices, while you seem to be intolorent of their choices.  Sorry, but your choice of the words "alcohol CULTURE" sounds very intolorent.  Whether I drink or not at an event where there is alcohol served, does not make me part of a "culture" of alcohol.

I am curious to know if you go to restaurants or outdoor festivals?  If so, you must surely know that most of both, serve alcohol. What is the difference between walking around a festival or eating at the next table over from a stranger who is having a drink and behaving in a respectful manner, or being at an event with people who happen to share your basic diet choices, who are also having a drink and behaving in a respectful manner?  There is no difference in my opinion. But that's my opinion.

Personally, I would LOVE to see all AA and MAD events be entirely vegan, for the animals' sake, the environment and the health of the attendees.  Perhaps you might consider encouraging those groups to move in that compassionate direction?

Thank you for your time.

I hope you all have a lovely week, Ann

PS - Lisa, thank you SO much for your efforts to provide a fun community for us to gather and meet eachother, in this world where compassion toward innocent beings is sadly a low priority.  Socializing is good for our hearts!  :-) 

On Feb 16, 2010, at 1:53 AM, lotus <[address removed]> wrote:

I feel it is totally inappropriate for a vegetarian organization that is attempting to teach people about the vegetarian lifestyle, a healthier way of living, to be promoting the alcohol culture.  Certainly the people from the hundreds of local AA groups, and other organizations such as MAD, would be shocked to go to a vegetarian meetup only to find the alcohol culture they are doing their best to get away from being promoted.  I feel it is even less appropriate to sensor my comments on this subject, which is what was done tonight by, apparently, one of the assistant organizers.  If either this censorship, or this promotion of alcohol, continue I am leaving the group.   
I think if you check you will find that there are lots of other health oriented vegetarians who are opposed to the promotion of alcohol by a vegetarian group, especially one that they are a part of.  I do not want my energy, my name, associated with promoting either alcohol, or censorship. 
Over many decades I have been a vegetarian and attended many meetings, potlucks, and other events related to vegetarianism, and never have I encountered either the promotion of alcohol, or censorship.  
From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] On Behalf Of Lisa
Sent: Monday, February 15,[masked]:34 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: [vegetarian-534] Announcing 2 New Meetups: Guys Brew and Girls Tapas Party 
Announcing 2 New Veg Meetups for March. RSVP on link below each event.

Guys Brew @ Jose Muldoon's March 12 Friday 5:30 PM
Guys meet at Jose Muldoon's for drinks, chips and salsa and some Mexican food. There are a few veg options but chips, salsa and drinks are good on their own.

Guys Brew at Jose Muldoon's

Girls Tapa Party March 13 Saturday 6:00 PM
Ladies this Meetup is for us. Let's have a girls night with a evening in Spain. Vegetable Tapas, Spanish Wine/Virgin Sangria, Music and a Fun Time. Ever since I got back from Spain last spring I have been wanting to plan a Spanish Tapas party. Tapas are one of the highlights of Spain so let's bring that fun to Colorado Springs!

Girls Tapa Party

If you have any questions feel free to e-mail me.

CS Vegetarian Meetup Group Organizer
-Be the Change You Wish To See in the World-

Colorado Springs Vegetarian Group

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On Feb 16, 2010, at 2:40 AM, lotus <[address removed]> wrote:

  -----Original Message-----
From: [address removed] [mailto:[address removed]] ;
Sent: Monday, February 15,[masked]:22 PM
To: [address removed]
Subject: Meetup Message from Lisa: Comment on Meetup Site 
Lisa sent you this message from Colorado Springs Vegetarian
Group on Meetup: 
Many vegetarians and vegans in this group chose this lifestyle
for ethical reasons as well.  If you feel that a more pure
vegan lifestyle for nutrition reasons only then the Raw Meetup
group is probably a better fit for your interests in health.
 I am sure you want to be in a group that reflects your
nutritional beliefs.   I will understand if you want to leave this group because of this. 
Why are you, in the above paragraph, raising the issue of a ������more pure vegan lifestyle for nutritional reasons only������? I never said that I was dissatisfied with the Colorado Springs Vegetarian Group because it is allows non-vegan members, or tolerates non-vegan foods at its meetings.  I said nothing of the sort.  So why are you suggesting these are the issues that I have complained about when they are not?  I complained about the promotion of the alcohol culture within the Colorado Springs Vegetarian Group, and the censorship of my comments having to do with the promotion of alcohol in this organization.  Please stick to the facts and do not imply that I have said things that I have not.  What do you gain by distorting the facts? 
For your information, I am already a part of the Raw Meetup, I attend Carol Cornett���s, Radiant Reality sponsored raw food meetings, I attend the monthly raw dinners sponsored by Chevy Lee Raw Foods; and I am soon to become a part of the Friday raw food meals produced by Carol Cornett.  So I am already plugged into the local raw food culture.  I guarantee you that if any of these organizations were to begin promoting the culture of alcohol, I would stop attending their meetings also.  I have had lots and lots of experience with the alcohol culture, seen the damage to causes people over, and over and over again; so that I have no interest whatsoever in being around it, or promoting it. 
You started the Colorado Springs Vegetarian Group Meetup, you put a lot of energy into getting it going, and probably some money; and I commend you for the progress in every way except this promotion of alcohol.  But you control the group, so you can run it in whatever way you like, that is clearly your call.  It is also my choice as to whether or not I continue to remain a part of this group. 
The group either stops promoting alcohol or I am out.  I have lots of other more positive ways in which to spend my time and energy.  But please do not distort the reasons for me leaving, if I do in fact leave. 
Let me ask you this, are you going to continue to have these alcohol promoting meetings called Guys Brew?  If so, please take me off of the Colorado Springs Vegetarian Group Meetup list of members. 
Best wishes in vegan health!
CS Vegetarian Meetup Group Organizer
-Be the Change You Wish To See in the World- 
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