The Dallas-Plano Atheists Meetup Group Message Board › Questions to ask a Christian!
|A former member||
Let's say in fact, your side wins. Let's just say that intelligent design is empirically proven. That doesn't neccessary prove the existence of God in the Bible. If you prove that our existence is the result of a metaphysical intelligence ...then all that proves is metaphysical intelligence. There are a million things that this intelligence could be: Aliens from another dimension, aliens from this dimension, string theory, multi-verse continuum, etc, etc. What if human consciousness actually evolves to the point that it merges with matter and energy? The possiblilites are endless.
While a God is possible, you start to infer that there are many other options that there is no reason to favor one God over the other God.
Even if intelligent design is not proven. If it were, it wouldn't prove a single solitary Godhead. It would simply prove only intelligence.
It's so often referred to as the Judeo-Christian belief system yet if one believes in Christianity then all Jews go to hell and if one believes in Judaism all Christian's go to hell. Jews don't believe in Christ yet Christ said redemption is only through him.
What about all the people that lived and died before Christ was crucified? They just went straight to hell, well unless they were a tribesmen of the 'chosen few'. And what about all the peoples of the world that lived between when Christ died and before the Christian message became globally ubiquitous?
Straight to hell! They never had a chance. How can that be rectified with God's preeminent justice and fairness?
Why did God create only a few billion people a fraction of which worship any single god, and yet create trillions of stars, none of which worship at all?
If life exists everywhere like us doesn't that contradict the uniqueness of the Holy books, Gospel of Jesus Christ, Vedas, Koran, Gita, etc. ...?
Why does it state in Genesis (some versions) that "life came forth from the sea"? Doesn't that sound like a Biblical support of evolution?
How can there be so many religions all who state only theirs is right, yet the other 'pagan' religions succeed just as greatly as your own religion?
If every other religion is faulty then how can the 'pagan' cling to their belief with such fervor even with opposing evidence? if it is a wrong religion they should fail, right?
How can the Bible state that man is created in God's image yet we all look different? What about women, mutants, deformities? how many images does God have anyway?
Why is it possible for us to calculate the mass of the universe and the force of the big bang yet still now be able to find how or where God can exist?
If Satan exists in the center of the Earth along with all the sinners as stated in the Bible, doesn't that make it pretty crowded? how does he fit all those dead sinners in there?
In a universe so cold and indifferent to our individual well being where does the supernatural come to play?, where is the connection between us individually and God anyway? Even assuming one has anything at all to do with the other, what mechanism is used for say communications or emotional connections?
And where do the great religions get their inspiration, God directly talking to prophets right? How come he doesn't talk to prophets anymore, or when he does it just turns out to be another crackpot?
Why does someone go to hell if they've never even been told it exists? Why do we all 'suffer sin' simply because of one man's (or woman's actually) error? Is this not such a gross injustice and unfairness that then how can God be considered just or fair?
Why is it that when some people fervently believe in ghosts or when they follow commanding voices in their head, these people are treated as delusional, crazy or even psychopathic? These people are given medical treatment and brain-chemical balancing drugs in order to manage their mental illnesses.
Yet when people profess the most intense beliefs in certain other things no one has ever really seen, such as demons, Allah, God, Budda, Mother Mary, angels, heaven, hell and so on, these people are treated with the greatest of reverence and social respect and even made into leaders and wise gurus who become rich from the donations of their faithful followers.
What is the difference here? The fantasies and delusions are equally foolish whether it’s the belief and obedience to a psychotic voice in the head or an imaginary deity residing in some magical place no one can see. Why?
God, Yahweh, What is God? What would qualify him as God? I believe it would be these three things:
1. Omnipotent - All powerful
2. Omniscent- All Knowing
3. Omnipresent - Everywhere all at once
In order to be God lets assume you have three of these attributes. You cannot have one without the other. For example, if your not all-knowing then how can you be all-powerful? How can you be powerful if your not everywhere all at once? Theist will argue about freewill which sets both sides into an argument over the term itself.
There is one moment in your life where you have no freewill. When you are born or as a small child. So under the banner of Christianity, God will choose when you are conceived. It's his act of will not your own.
Since God is infinitely all-knowing even before any of us were born. Before I was born he knew I would doubt his existence and that I'm going to wind up in the lake of fire.
Also the Christian milieu states that God is all-loving and doesn't want me or you or anyone for that matter to wind up in hell. Then why throw me into a chain of events that will lead me into hell? or why does he choose a poor medium to reveal himself to humans?
Even if I choose not to believe making these choices out of freewill, he still created me to wind up into the firery abyss for eternity. Then he wants to blame me for it and then he wants to blame you for it. This attribute of the Judeo-Christian God makes absolutley no sense.
God knows exactly what's going happen to his creation before he even creates it. Why? He doesn't want these things to happen yet he still precieves to create humans doomed for hell. He blames, punishes and eternally burns part of his creation he loves the most.
These are the qualities of God that negate the idea of freewill. Even though in a smaller scale (human scale) you are making choices out of your own freewill. You are still unable to do anything that he doesn't already know or will happen in the future. I guess you can't catch God by surprise, right?
The key word here is "linear." God knows every choice your going to make in a strict linear chain because he knows exactly what you are going to do.
To God it's not a bunch of endless possibilites which he would be aware of every single outcome. God is just one possibility and one outcome.
In conclusion, if God exists, then you are caught in one chain of events, one line, one outcome and you cannot deviate from that. Because if you do then God cannot be omniscent as such as freewill negated. This argument tears apart this unjust, unloving, tyrant character of the Christian God of the Bible. It brings unresolvable questions onto every act of punishment that God gives to humans doubting his existence. I'm very sorry but God can't be worth believing in.
|A former member||
If god is omniscient and omnibenificent then he can NOT be omnipotent, unless he kills people and watches them be killed in some twisted sense of love and compassion. The question is why would an all powerful all loving all knowing god make autistic children? stillborn children? children who starve to death by the age of 3?
No, god is not all powerful, and if not, he is no god at all.
|A former member||
Amazing-way over my head but I love reading the stuff you guys post -It really makes me think.
My Atheism comes from a very simple place in my head- I dont believe in Santa or the easter bunny either.
Is it Ok if I send this to some of my x-tian freinds -it'll blow their mind- they will know I didnt write it but I would like to share.
Those are some of the very same arguments that atheists having been using for the last 600 years. The problem is, as always, you're using logic to try to convince people that think that the stronger they believe the more righteous they are. When faced with great evidence to the contrary they simply disbelieve even more and in doing so feel even better about their faith.
One thing you are misunderstanding is the "the wedge" strategy. The Discovery Institute clearly outlined a strategy they call the wedge. Since we heathens won't let them teach out-right creationism in the classroom, they want to get something small, anything, accepted like the thin point of a wedge. And once that's in place, hammer all the rest in until we're right back to creationism.
Your statement about ID not proving God is exactly what they want. They want us all to accept that the creator is just a designer, it may not be the Xthian gawd. That way it will be accepted in school. Later they'll get it back to the Xthian gawd.
See this link:
I know it's wikipedia but the first link (1) at the bottom is the actual document, and 5 is Forrest's investigation and discovery of it.
Edited by Mick on Nov 18, 2010 11:26 AM
|A former member||
That wedge agenda is exactly the reason to push back, fast, hard, and often on all forms of religious meddling in public affairs.
Wikipedia is much better than what people give it credit for being. If nothing else, any article that has citations is a fantastic place to start looking for information. For instance, in topics of hard sciences, start at wikipedia and you'll soon be knee deep in doctorate level papers on just about any topic.
When you consider that 10 years ago, what a student learned as a comp sci major is not really valid any more, there HAS to be value in information that is continuously updated.
Being anti-theist, I do not believe in any spirits, gods, ghosts, souls etc. If you want to act like they exist you'll need to demonstrate evidence for it... repeatedly... in controlled circumstances... under controlled tests. Until there is credible evidence to think about, believers are just wrong. As wrong as those that believe in the easter bunny or tooth fairy. wrong wrong wrong. The burden of proof is upon the claimant. I know that people get this confused, saying that I'm making a claim, but I'm not. I was born not believing in such nonsense. I'm making no claim at all. It is the believer that makes a claim and has yet to provide credible evidence that is more significant than even random chance.
It doesn't matter how many people believe in Santa Claus, it doesn't make him real.... screw off Virginia! Same goes for gods.
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?"
Epicurus - pwning theists since 341BCE
|A former member||
I tend to ask the stupidest question that make one think.
Does god have testicles? Why?
an Anus? Why?
Could it be that the person who inspired the bible was in fact the bad guy and that the good guy was quiet on moral grounds? How do you know for sure?
If I read the stories of spiderman living in NYC does that mean its real? It's posible isn't it?
In a world where god is supposed to care about people why is it that the people who believe in him the most are also the ones getting screwed the most?
If we replaced god with a cup of Folder's Coffee - would we notice? How?