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Theme: Reflections on TDD

  • Jun 16, 2014 · 6:30 PM
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Following  up on the recent "Is TDD Dead?" debate, we'll have a discussion around what we've learned about TDD practice as it's very much alive to our members. 

We'll kick of the session short talk from Tim Pickles about recent experiences at Unruly applying Promises to our JavaScript testing. Starting with an experience report will help us focus on practical challenges that XP developers typically face in their daily work.

Nat Pryce will follow up with a brief summary of what he thinks TDD is about and why Mocks might not be the work of the devil.

Following these talks we'll break up into smaller groups to discuss topics brought up (using a format based on Open Space).

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  • Ivan M.

    The article I was talking about: http://puttingtheteaintoteam.blogspot.com/2009/02/two-styles.html - it doesn't mention mock objects, but one style leads to using mock objects and the other doesn't.

    2 · June 16, 2014

  • Rachel D.

    Nat Pryce has kindly agreed to fill in for Steve Freeman who's unable to come along this evening.

    June 16, 2014

  • Hemal V.

    Won't be able to make it, sadly: World Cup out-of-hours support :(

    June 15, 2014

  • Piotr P.

    Thanks for great talks and discussion!
    I created mailing list for us: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/xprolo
    Enjoy!

    3 · May 20, 2014

  • Piergiorgio N.

    sorry guys I can't make it for today,
    hope to make it for the next one

    May 19, 2014

  • Anthony G.

    Is there any point in appealing against the title?
    I'm no longer interested in getting involved in this biennial chest beating (age has wearied me). I'd prefer if the focus was on how we can get better at these disciplines.

    May 13, 2014

  • James M.

    I'm really sorry to be missing this - unfortunately it clashes with the Little Schemer book club [1] again - is there any chance the talks will be video-ed?

    [1] http://lanyrd.com/series/little-schemer-book-club/

    May 19, 2014

    • Rachel D.

      There are currently no plans to video our meetups

      May 19, 2014

  • David B.

    I would be really interested in a discussion that provides insight as to how to balance the Classic vs Mockist approaches.

    Our experience is that the Classic approach seems to lead to a combinatorial explosion of tests, and the Mockist approach seems to lead to tests being coupled to implementation choices making it harder to refactor code than it ought to be.

    I assume we are doing something wrong in both cases, so any insight as to what that is would be great. Not sure if anyone else is interested in this, as it may be all old news to you. I'd definitely be against having a discussion on chest beating.

    1 · May 14, 2014

  • SteveF

    actually, there was a little from DHH. But we can avoid that if we want to. Personally, I'd just like to start an interesting discussion.

    1 · May 13, 2014

  • Rachel D.

    Anthony, I agree we want the session to have a positive focus on learning too. The point is not to replay the debate but to reflect more generally on what we've learned over the past 15 years of TDD practice. However, I think it is worthwhile to mention to key learnings mentioned by Martin and Kent in the recent debate Hangout hence the title. Were you able to listen to the conversation, there wasn't any chest beating.

    May 13, 2014

  • SteveF

    I'll start with a very brief summary of what I think TDD is about (using Nat's illustrations), including why mocks might not be the work of the devil.

    2 · May 11, 2014

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    we provide meeting space and snacks plus developers who want to attend.

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