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"Let's Hear it for LOVE!" -- Response from a Correspondent: "Everyone believes in God . . ." ........... I Don’t Believe in a God – What Should I Call Myself?

From: Norma Jeane Y.
Sent on: Thursday, October 18, 2012 10:52 PM
Beautifully written, Manny!
". . .change the definition of God, that's the key." 
Made sense to me.  I agree the problem is in the narrow interpretations of the word "God."  If everyone would just let people interpret "God" as Love -- & Let People Themselves make the most personal decisions as long as they are not doing harm to another person -- like birth control & abortion--instead of trying to legislate it for everyone else! -- "Play God."
"Trust Your Process." That's what my first therapist told me as I was "coming out of" the rigid, dogmatic fundamentalist religion I was raised in (Seventh-day-Adventist -- where I was taught (brainwashed) to trust the male church leaders' interpretations of the Bible--rather than my own Humanity based on Love.  It has taken me Decades to learn to ascertain, feel & trust My Own Process -- but/and that's the foundation of "Personhood" -- being able to think/feel for Oneself -- trust your "God"/god WITHIN -- not an authoritian set of beliefs Outside of One's Essence.
From: Manny Gross <[address removed]>
To: Norma Young <[address removed]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16,[masked]:46 AM
Subject: Re: Fw: I Don’t Believe in a God – What Should I Call Myself?
Dear Ones
Everyone believes in God.
All you have to do is change the definition of God, that's the key.
Your perspective and consciousness
will determine that level of truth you see, know and feel, but
no matter what level you are seeing from,, its all God.
Do you trust that the Sun will rise tomorrow?  Of course you do.
Do you trust that your heart will keep beating today?  Of course you do.
Do you trust that your next breath will sustain you? Of course you do.
That is called Trusting the Process.
The Universal Process.
God is that!
The Creator, the act of creation and the Created.
The Love, Lover and Beloved.
God is That too.
When we wake up we realize that we are love and worthy of love,,,
then and only then, can we go on, to the the business of
Loving and Being Loved.
Only our Fears and illusion of separation makes us
feel or think that we are anything less than God.
God is, All there IS
Blessings to Infinity and Beyond

On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 6:32 AM, Norma Young <[address removed]> wrote:

Thank you for your response--I was a little "trepidacious" in opening your email response--cuz I was quite "vociferous" & thought you might respond in kind--defensively -- and "blast me" cuz I "blasted" the negative aspects of religions, including Hinduism, that I understand as having Caused much of the sexism in the world.

To your credit, you responded civilly with an offer to present what you consider to be "True Hinduism" -- either to me individually or to a group.  I know you are professionally a teacher--mathematician, I believe, if I'm remembering correctly.  I'm sure you're "Great" writing about mathematics; however, I understand if that doesn't extend to other forms of writing.

I am forwarding this to the Orlando Freethinkers & Humanists group (as I promised) -- as well as to others I sent the earlier email tonight to--for journalistic fairness & completeness at this stage of the conversation.  It's up to the organizer, "Orlando Jack", of the Freethinkers group, if he wants to invite you there.  I know we're booked up through the end of the year at our monthly meetings.  I rather think he might be indisposed to the offer from you, as the Freethinkers group is composed mainly of people who are trying to get RELIEF & Freedom FROM religion -- as I am too--having been raised in an extreme protestant fundamentalist sect (cult) that was damaging to my health.  Parts of me are STILL "in recovery."

In any case, I won't have time to even "THINK" about your offer further until after The Election -- & don't know "just WHEN" after that, cuz "My Plate" is so Full now.  I will give it to my "unconscious mind" to cojutate on it -- and meanwhile see what the "'Ocean Waves' of the Collective Unconscious" (as in Carl Jung's term for whatever the "IS" is that is all around us and in us--the Stuff that Everything is made up of) bring in.  I would be glad to delegate the gathering logistics to whoever wants to set up a conversation group wise.  I certainly don't have the time now.  Thanks for your reply.


----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Deen Khandelwal <[address removed]>
To: Norma Young <[address removed]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16,[masked]:53 AM
Subject: Re: I Don’t Believe in a God – What Should I Call Myself?
I am not good at writing, but would love to have a hour or two long session with you individually or with a group of your choice, at any place at a convenient time.  Regards.
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 16, 2012, at 12:31 AM, Norma Young <[address removed]> wrote:
Deen, my apology--meant to "BCC" your email address to the people I shared my querying with.  I got in a hurry--"dog tired" now, hungry & body sore from being at this computer too long.  I know you're a teacher & are quite public in your opinions, so maybe it'll be O. K.  My email is visible to everyone -- & you can make my visible to anyone you wish--as a gesture of "Equality" & "karma." --Norma

From: Norma Young <[address removed]>
To: Deen Khandelwal <[address removed]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 16,[masked]:28 AM
Subject: Re: I Don’t Believe in a God – What Should I Call Myself?
Deen, Tell me what the ESSENCE of that is -- & I'll post it for you to the Orlando Freethinkers & Humanists website-- & share it elsewhere to represent another viewpoint.I'm curious:  What IS "true Hinduism"'s position on: 1)  Birth control2)  Abortion3)  Prostitution (India is #1 in the world in prostitution (sent you my original essay discussing this -- aren't there a lot of Hindus in India as well as Pakistan, etc.?)  My essay included a reference to the PBS documentary lately which stated that the "status" of India as #1 in Prostitution in the world was perpetuated in large part by the caste system Hindus have historically been associated with.  I understand from attending the Spiritual Pilgrim group, talking with others in the group & readings in general that Buddhism came in as a REACTION to the inequality of the Hindu-based caste system--the Brahmins (sp.?) were at the "TOP of the Pyramid" -- & apparently this deplorable condition exists yet today & is primarily responsible for the misery of countless girls & young women SOLD into prostitution -- or "pre-destined"/"fated" to be prostitutes -- because they were born into the particular "CLASS" that designates them the Prostitute class. 

Where does this inhumane nonsense COME FROM?  Even IF the True Hindu religion does not promote that now, it should be activist in educating other religious sects that this is WRONG & pushing for laws forbidding this.  As the religions are in a country, so go the laws, many times, unfortunately; if the religioins are sexist and the people brainwashed to vote for injurious laws out of fear of "going to hell" or whatever the Hindu version of that would be; then I can't respect a religion or a law that would permit or promote that.

4)  "Bride burnings" in India--Pakistan & other Hindu countries too?
5)  Any other form of Sexism, that to ME, would not come from a "TRUE" religion.  A "true" religion, for me is based on LOVE & Equality.
6) Celibacy for religious monks or nuns
7) Celibacy before marriage as a requirement of faith
8) "Proper" dress for women
Just because something is "The Culture" or "The Religion" of a country--doesn't make it RIGHT--i. e., HUMANE/HEALTHY/LOVING.

The most heinous example that comes to mind is the incredibly violent & torturous practice of Female Genital Mutilation that has affected 130 million women worldwide -- that some religions promote. 
Whenever & wherever I find practices of sexism (which by definition is some form of violence toward women (or in some instances men as in reverse sexism--prejudice against male nurses previously in this country--which feminists fought against); usually some religion is at the ROOT of it.  That's why I have come to distrust virtually all religions --because they're not REALLY based on Love & Equality!  Humanity.

From: Deen
To: Norma Young <[address removed]>
Sent: Thursday, October 11,[masked]:57 PM
Subject: Re: I Don’t Believe in a God – What Should I Call Myself?
You need to take an objective look at 'true Hinduism'.
Sent from my iPad
On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:25 AM, Norma Young <[address removed]> wrote:

----- Forwarded Message -----
From: Away Point <[address removed]>
To: [address removed]
Sent: Tuesday, October 9,[masked]:29 PM
Subject: [New comment] I Don’t Believe in a God – What Should I Call Myself?
Nobuo Ishiwata commented: "The almost religion claims gods created the world (the universe) and the human. Then naturally you could have next question. “Who created God (gods)?” Some answer might be: god of gods, God anyway has existed and so on. However, there’s nothing expl"
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in response to Valerie Tarico:
Note: Este articulo es disponible en español aquí. Catholic, Born-Again, Reformed, Jew, Muslim, Shiite, Sunni, Hindu, Sikh, Buddhist . . . .  Religions give people labels. The downside can be tribalism, an assumption that insiders are better than outsiders, that they merit more compassion, integrity and generosity or even that violence toward “infidels” is acceptable. [...]
The almost religion claims gods created the world (the universe) and the human. Then naturally you could have next question. “Who created God (gods)?” Some answer might be: god of gods, God anyway has existed and so on. However, there’s nothing explanations to convince me so far. First, I have to understand how we recognize ourselves (our existence) because who recognizes such gods are exactly we – the human. You might know Descartes’ statement: “Codito ergo sum (I think, therefore I am). So we have ability to recognize not only ourselves but others, animals, plants, the world, the universe and even gods. Our brains can recognize such things by using the senses. But these human’s ‘sensors’ maybe limited to recognize our ‘true world’, in fact, our eyes can’t see infrared and our ears can’t catch ultrasonic wave. This means that we cannot verify aspects of our ‘true world (everything)’ due to a lack of suitable human’s ‘sensor’ You can feel existence of your solid body and everything through only your perceptions like a sight, hearing, taste, smell, touch, balance, pain, time and others. And eventually, your consciousness recognizes them. That is to say everything’s existence – including gods – is depending on your consciousness i.e. human’s consciousness. Therefore I can say that the world and everything ware created by the human consciousness, there were not created by the gods as the religions claim. The gods are just illusion (delusion) that human’s brains create. Besides, I can point out that heaven, hell, devils and angels are delusions also. In fact, I have to say ‘crowded human’s consciousness or ‘crowded consciousness of all organisms with intelligence’ because the world and everything’s existence aren’t composed of individual consciousness. Multi-consciousness influences each other to realize our real world. If there would be someone has a special sense that the human doesn’t have, could see such ‘true world’ above and if he observe, our real world would be like a Virtual Reality. However, maybe I should quote some scientific evidence or theory about my argument above to convince you. Actually there’s information, which reveals on the crowded human’s consciousness – ‘Network of the soul’ on ‘life after death’ of the human. If you have interest about that information, you might get it, searching the internet. Moreover you might need to think of the quantum mechanics also for imaging the mention above as scientific evidence.
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-- MannyG[masked][address removed]

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