Orlando Humanist Association Message Board › Is God protecting Fla. at Gov. Crist's request?

Is God protecting Fla. at Gov. Crist's request?

A former member
Post #: 175
Could it be divine intervention that's kept Florida safe from hurricanes since Gov. Charlie Crist took office?

Crist said he isn't trying to take credit, but he told a group of real estate agents Friday that he's had prayer notes placed in the Western Wall in Jerusalem each year and no major storms have hit Florida.


Oh lord - won't you buy me - a Mercedes Benz.

A former member
Post #: 661
It's proof that god won't respond to your prayers unless you place it in writing and send it through the western wall in jerusalem. "Western Union"
Rich C.
Orlando, FL
Post #: 6
Also the heaviest storms seem to hit Florida starting around now and going through the next month or so. We could get hammered.
While the statement made by the governor is inane, shouldn't you wait til the end of the season?
A former member
Post #: 662
Hey Crist - how about a prayer in the wall to find Haleigh -
I guess god didn't hear the prayers to finding Caylee alive.
I guess god didn't hear the prayers in all those other deaths, diseases and such...

So I guess when the next natural disaster happens, such as an earthquake, or flood, we can just say it's the people's fault for not praying / putting notes into the wall.

I guess powerful god is either not always at home, doesn't read his emails, doesn't read his letters/notes..
Jairo M.
Winter Park, FL
Post #: 86
No, it is not that God is not always at home, doesn't read his emails, doesn't read his letters/notes, and so on.
It is that God is actually answering everybody's prayers all at the same time, but of course that means compromises.

So for example, if you are praying for a sunny day, free from rain, so that you can sell sun tan enhancer or UV protection cream or bikinis or shades, another person will be praying for rain, so that he can get water for his crops, sell umbrellas, get his grass to look green again, and so on. So right now some people who would like to sell you plywood are actually praying for a hurricane to come through Florida.

It is like a metaphysical/spiritual democratic system, and that extends to all life forms in all realms. Together we humans as a specie must have prayed that we would lose our tails, I am not sure why, perhaps it gets in the way when wearing clothes, and that is why we now have only our tail bone left. Prayer is simply a wish, a visualization, a thought, a desire, and it doesn't have to be directed at any particular god or the universe. It can be directed at ourselves. Why not? We are all gods, potentially.

We all pray. Even animals pray. Why say not so? Don't they also have wants, desires, fears, pains, sorrows? Do you have a pet? Okay go kill it now. See how that makes it feel, and you feel. Where is that consciousness or awareness or soul now?

Do you live your life like you are going to be alive tomorrow? What if today is your last day? Are you ready for your death process? Will you be praying at that time? What if you are caught in an accident and you know you are going to die? Well these are not enjoyable things to ponder so if you can get through this message, I congratulate you.

Prayer is talking to God. Meditation is listening. God is us all creating our Universe.

In the beginning God prayed by saying let there by light, and so forth. And her prayers were answered. And the answer is this Universe, our minds, and our dilemmas.

But God is within and without you, inside and outside you, everywhere and nowhere, in all time and in no time, accessible in your heart, in your breath, in the sound you make when you pronounce any name that you designate for God. It may sound too mystical, too miraculous, too incomprehensible, too impossible, but if we don't start praying for whatever we feel is good for our happiness and the happiness of all, and start dreaming the impossible dream, then it will never have a chance to happen. Sure it may take time, but we will gradually see improvements. We have seen deterioration for not dreaming, for not asking. How's that song go? When you wish upon a star, makes no difference who you are, . . .

Sure "religion" has let us down, but don't throw the baby out with the dirty water. Treat the literature of religions as it really is, as writings that had value for their culture, and gather from it any wisdom that helps today's cultures.

So pray for world peace, freedom from delusions, wisdom, our daily bread, enough to eat for everybody, and that we know when to stop eating so we don't get fat. Lead us into temptation, but give us the wisdom to not let it fool us. Keep us from hoarding false wealth (including useless and pointless knowledge), and from the inner shame of help not given in time. May my prayers be the ground from which all my actions grow. Amen.

What did Jesus recommend? Well to pray "the Lord's Prayer" but it needs to be translated correctly to match what he really intended. Actually, we need to look at the Aramaic language version of the Lord's Prayer. Basically the Lord's Prayer is asking for the Universe to take care of all our needs and for wisdom. Sort of like what I prayed for up to the last paragraph.

Aramaic is the language Jesus spoke. When you analyze the original words, then you see incredible Wisdom. For example, in the Beatitudes you have the mysterious first line "Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven". What does that mean? Does it mean that if we stay materially poor, our spirit will earn the Kingdom of Heaven? Maybe not. When the original Aramaic is understood, the intended meaning is more like "Blessed are those who practice meditation and pay attention to their breath, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven" According to Neil Douglas-Klotz, an Aramaic scholar and translator of Jesus' Aramaic words, that verse of the Beatitudes contains the Aramaic word MESKENAEE which means holding on as if one were poor without it, in other words, focusing single pointedly and holding that practice precious. The Aramaic word RUKH may be translated as "spirit," "breath," "soul", or the essence of life, whatever animates, moves or stirs life, hence the breath energy, Prana in Yoga, Chi in Tai Chi. So focusing on our breath is what Jesus recommended in the Beatitudes. For more information on what Jesus meant in the Lord's Prayer and other sayings get the book "Prayers of the Cosmos, Meditations on the Aramaic Words of Jesus" by Neil Douglas-Klotz. Reader beware: though the book is brief, it contains the seeds of a revolution. I would like to think that "Kingdom of Heaven" is Perfect Happiness, Wisdom, Enlightenment here on earth. Because when you conquer your own mind, your demons, your delusions, you have done the same as bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to your life. Mr. Douglas-Klotz, the Aramaic scholar and translator of Jesus's actual words, has come up with this new translation: "Happy and aligned with the One are those who find their home in the breathing; to them belong the inner kingdom and queendom of heaven."

May all your prayers be answered (well they always have been, just not the way you wanted it)
Jairo Moreno
A former member
Post #: 663
Jairo - I personally believe that people create things to comfort themselves. Clearly as religion has proven, people uphold other people's superstitious habits, even if it is defies logic. In your response, you start out being neutral, but then you seem to be two feet in the "jesus" camp. So for clarification on your beliefs / views:

How many gods are there?

Was Jesus the actual son of a god?

Is there a goddess as well as a god?

Was Jesus a real person or a collection of things put together to make it seem that he was a real person?

Who is the lord in the "Lord's prayer"?

Was Zeus a real god?

Is the devil real or is it a collection of things taken from other beliefs, such as Pan/centaur?

In closing, paying attention, and reflecting, and mentally praying for a supernatural intervention could make it seem like Harry Potter is real and Wizards do exist. Wishful thinking is a form of therapy, however sometimes it is best to throw out the baby with the bathwater and start fresh. Free yourself away from the damaging centuries of superstitions and such. When I go to bed, I will become a magical person, able to fly. Then when I wake up, it's back to reality.
Jairo M.
Winter Park, FL
Post #: 87
Good questions Royce. There are countless gods, and Jesus was called the Son of Man often in the Bible, and even we are Sons of Man. I am trying to figure out what the real meaning of that is. I think Jesus can be considered the Son of God, but so are we, we are all sons and daughters of God. And there ARE goddesses of course, and actually every god is multi-sexual, that means that it has a masculine form and a feminine form and they even appear together united in sexual union. Jesus was a real person and also a collection of things put together. Aren't we all persons that we ourselves put together? You put together your profile and a picture for meetup.com, and so do I. Everyone is putting together their "selves" and so everybody is made up. And when you meditate upon your real self, do you really find it? Okay are you your body? Are you your Brain? Are you your Mind? Is there a difference between your Brain and your Mind and your Body and your Soul and your Spirit? God told me that the difference between Soul and Spirit is that the Soul is your essence, like a car's motor, and the Spirit is your car. So I think that the Spirit is your minds, your thoughts, all your mental processes and patterns, while your Soul is your awareness, your root Mind, like clear water free from the coloring of your thoughts and feelings.

I think that Zeus may have been an Alien being who was head of a bunch of other alien beings overlooking the earth and making sure it was being taken care of properly in order to develop civilizations such as the Egyptians, the Greeks, and so on. But I don't think that idea is investigated by scientists because people and global corporations in power may lose their position and control over us slaves. So scientists are told to cover up any evidence or ridicule it, and so people will listen to scientists and religious leaders and make sure us slaves keep in mind the misleading information.
The Lucifer Angel is said to have been a top angel, and rebelled against the god or the alien being that was in charge of taking care of this planet to make sure civilizations would prosper correctly. That is an interesting story about Adam and Eve and all. So again we are creating these stories just like we create legends in our time and they become larger than life, like we did with Elvis and like we are doing with Michael Jackson, and even Bob Dylan.

So there are factual events that can be traced, but facts are boring. We all hunger for good stories. Good stories are Myths to live by. They teach wisdom, morality, philosophy, and so on. They may not be scientifically verifiable, note for note correct, but analysis kills a good story. Why go to a movie and analyze how it was done? Just enjoy the movie and don't complain about whether it is true or false, whether it is historically correct and so on. Get the meaning behind it. Get the moral of the story.

Why not dream 24 hours a day? Why not become magical while awake? How can that be done? Through realizing that the mind produced your circumstances and your genetic makeup and selected your parents and this lifetime for this moment. How? Well your mind didn't have much control but it was there and able to make some choices here and there along the way, along the countless lives you have lived. So actually it was your Karma that got you this far. So congratulations, because of the percentage of life forms on earth, the human specie is probably a fraction of a percentage, so you lucked out in this life, you could have been born an animal or a hell being in one of many hell realms, but somehow you managed to make it as a human this time.

But don't be too good, otherwise you may overshoot and be born a god in your next life, and that means you will live "forever" as a god, but nothing is forever, even gods have to die and are reborn as animals or humans or hell beings, depending on their Karma too. Wow, even gods carry Karma.

This is too much for you to digest at one time. This is a more expanded view of cosmology than you are used to. It makes it too complicated, that is why most people prefer the simpler beliefs of Christians and Moslems, where we only get one life and there is only one god.

But the Bible never said that there was only one god. It said that Yahweh was the god for the Hebrew people and that they should only pay attention to that god because it was a jealous god. Somehow to make Christianity and Moslem faith the most popular the priests decided to teach that there is only one god and it created it all and is judging us all to get rid of the idea of Karma and reincarnation.

Why not believe in many lives? If you believe in just this one life, then ask yourself why was it this life and not all others that you are experiencing? Who or what is it that is experiencing it? That experiencer is not the brain, not the conventional mind, but it is simply awareness.

So what happens to that awareness when the body dies? What happens when you are in deep sleep? Does your awareness stop existing in both cases? The death process is not unlike falling asleep and going into deep sleep, and coming out of it.

So how does our consciousness transfer from one body to another? Due to Karma the consciousness is thrown to another time and place where it encounters a couple having sex and enters the fertilize egg and if that consciousness was more attracted to your father then you would be born a daughter, and vice versa, if you liked the look of your mother, you would be born her son. The attraction determines your sexuality. That explains why if you are a man, you might get along better with your mother than with your father and vice versa.

So how can this theory of rebirth/karma/intermediate states be verified scientifically? Well there is only lots of evidence, but little is being done. I guess we can start by watching Buddhist monks meditate with their heads hooked up to instruments. That is a start.

In closing, back in the French revolution, the scientist Lavoisier was up for the guillotine. He instructed his lab assistant, for the benefit of the advancement of science, that he count for how long his head would remain conscious. The scientist made the intention to bat his eyelids as fast as he could as soon as his head was cut off. The assistant started to count the seconds after the head was chopped off and counted about 15 seconds and 12 winks after which he saw no more winks. Wow that is pretty long for a disembodied head to have the intention of winking. THe head may have wanted to wink some more but the oxygen must have run out. Lavoisier's consciousness stayed trapped in his head for even longer than 15 seconds. Who knows for how long, maybe minutes, maybe hours more? The Tibetan Buddhist's keep a recently dead body for about 3 days before sending it to the sky funeral. That ensures that the consciousness leaves the body comfortably to the intermediate state and on to the next life. But here in the west it is assumed that if the body is dead, then the consciousness must be extinct. What if it is still there for days? Would you want to be in there and have them cremate you? Of course the consciousness may not feel any pain by then, but it is still in there gathering itself to exit through the top of the head.

Thanks for reading,

Jairo Moreno

A former member
Post #: 665
It could be an endless debate / discussion on the human experience in what we call life.

Sure you can have similar traits that allow better skills or similar skills as others. But I attribute that to genetics, genes etc..

I don't believe in gods and devils. I do believe in science. Critical thinking and rational thinking. I also personally believe that we are each like a radio-transmitter. We are born with redundant senses to record/feedback all sorts of experiences... and we attempt to validate ourselves with emotions. And some people created gods and devils to provide rewards and punishment/excuses for their actions, and to control others.

I don't believe in getting lost in wishful thinking. However, it's great to explore and attempt to find new things to discover. The exploration of life and its mysteries is exciting, but some of what you write sounds like you are mixing science fiction with religion and attempting to link it all together. Sounds like you are creative. But remember not to loose yourself in the experiment and your quest for knowledge. :)
Jairo M.
Winter Park, FL
Post #: 88
Yeah it could be an endless debate / discussion and we would get nowhere.
Genetics are considered a huge component of what allows us to be happy, according to a book titled "The How of Happiness" by Sonja Lyubomirsky which says that 50% of what determines whether we are happy lies in our genetics and an amazingly small 10% due to our circumstances. But there is the hope that we can do something with the other 40% which could be under our control, if we have the "will" and the mind and the wisdom to do something about it. The author says that we transform our life by changing how we think and behave. It's like controlling our weight. My "set point" for weight is higher than I'd like, but I exercise and eat well daily to ensure I stay below that level. I know that if I slacked off, however, my weight would surge back up. The same is true for happiness. We can boost our happiness above our preset level, but keeping it there requires consistent effort. Ideally, that effort will become habit, and as with exercise, it will become less of a chore with time. Those prone to unhappiness aren't doomed; they'll just have to try harder to counteract the forces working against them." Interesting way of looking at it.

Reality is shaped and limited by our perception of things, and our perception is formed by our Karma, our mind's accumulated thoughts, words, intentions, and actions over lifetimes. Our true nature, true self is not our mind, our brain, our body, nor our "I" ego, but our Buddha Nature, which is like a clear blue sky. Everything else we think is our "I", is actually clouds going by. So our Buddha Nature is what makes us all equal to each other, everything else is just clothing, makeup, profiles, flesh, blood, muscle, organs, and bones, and that includes brain and genetics, and all that makes us different and unequal. Living and believing that the difference is all there is may seem rational but it causes suffering because it is all different, unequal, always changing, impermanent, prone to decay, sickness, and death. And when it occasionally causes us happiness, that may be because our Buddha Nature is connecting with other Buddha Natures in others.

May all your wishes come true,
A former member
Post #: 217
Royce, how admirable of you to actually read all this rubbish and take it into consideration. I started reading...but then....

Jairo, you make the typical religious fallacy of listing your fairytales as actual facts. We don't know if there was ever a Jesus, what language he spoke or of anything he has said. You also explain meanings of words as if their interpretation was up to opinion. Please consult a Webster before your next post.

Jairo, really.....what are you doing here? I think it's rude to infiltrate a Freethinkers site with the agenda to convert people. You won't have much luck here since Freethinkers base their knowledge on reason and science, not dogma, authority or tradition, which you are apparently fooled by.

If I come out as rude, it's because I'm responding to what I think is an incredible disrespectful act on your part. Us minority Freethinkers have few safe havens in this nutty religious world, so please leave this area un-polluted. I certainly don't go around to religious groups and try to preach Atheism. That would be very tactless. See what I'm saying?
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