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North Texas Objectivist Society (NTOS) Message Board › Cloned Horse??????

Cloned Horse??????

A former member
Post #: 63
To all,

I saw this as many of you most likly did.­

You know this is ok with me. All the cats, sheep, & what ever else these guys do. Yet when it comes to cloning people, I am not so sure. I have been thinking this over for some time now. It does bother me, but I do see the good in this. I fear however that much bad could come of this as well. I am having a hard time with the moral issue on this topic. I think it is something that we should all be thinking of. I'd love to hear some of your imput on this matter. It is always good to get differing ideas about a new subject such as this. So please feel free to tell me what your thoughts about this matter is. Thanks!!!!!

A former member
Post #: 7
I don't see the moral conundrum that you're talking about !!

If the scientists can clone "healthy" babies using human DNA, then couples who can't have babies don't have to adopt babies anymore and they can have their own (in a different way)!!

Also, having lived in Texas for 8 years, I am all for cloned babies with no allergies to pollen and all the other good stuff that is floating around !!

cheers !
A former member
Post #: 64

My wife fully agrees with you allergies deal.biggrin I feel sorry for both of you also. My main point is if these clones are used for bad reasons. Like just breeding for war, spare body parts, or just to do research on, and other things like that. Being sub human for the only reason that they are clones. As I belive they would not be sub human at all. The moral question is this. Is it right for sceintist to do this? I am not opposed to cloning unless some of these probs come up. Yet I have a deep fear that they will, that it would be only a matter of time before it did. Maybe the problem lies within me, in my thoughts that this will happen. Without any evidence that it will. Yet I do know the nature of some men that would use a thing like this to do evil things. So tell me if you also foresee the evil that could come from this cloning people. I am ofcorse aware of many wonderful things also could come from it.

Heather L.
Garland, TX
Post #: 2
Thanks for this link. This story brightened my day. I imagine that continued success in this field will make it possible to live a longer and healthier life.
A former member
Post #: 1
Like all things, the only good or evil that comes from cloning depends on how it's being used and/or who it's being used for, etc. I like imagining things. Have a look at some hypothetical situations:

Cloning for spare parts:
Small children can regrow fingertips like a starfish. If adults were allowed to grow their fingertips back, I think it'd be a good thing. Instead of cloning a human and chopping it up, you could regrow a damaged kidney or other organ inside your body. I don't see anything wrong with that. Why not grow a whole new body body to stick your brain in when the old body where's out? Body parts aren't people are they? I don't know about a brain replacement, though. I'd have to see some kind of research before I made a judgement on that one.
Growing perfect human beings and keeping them like vegetables to be chopped up for meat seems immoral to me; in addition to being a waste of a perfectly good human being.

Clone armies:
Picture this headline: "Self-proclaimed reincarnation of Adolf Hitler conquers Russia with secret army of Aryan Clones!" I think something like this is the first thing that pops into people's heads when they hear about an army of clones.
Remember Anthem? There was a great war in which the parasites of the world destroyed the producers of the world (kind of like the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia). What if the good guys were able to raise an army of John Galt clones?
I can think of a few advantages to having an American clone army:
- We won't need to maintain a standing army in peacetime. There was a big debate about this when the nation was still forming. Supporters felt it would be necessary to prevent being caught unprepared for an invasion. Critics said it would bring perpetual warfare.
A former member
Post #: 2
Sorry, I had to go and I've lost my train of thought. Anyway I don't have a problem with cloning as long as it's regulated properly.
Finally, I have one thing to say about my moral attitude toward a hypothetical human clone. If clones are truly human beings, not just cheap imitations, then any good objectivist will recognize a human being for what it is and treat it as such.
Norman, OK
Post #: 1
I was unable to link to the cloned horse story but do have a couple of thoughts.
There are several popular misconceptions about cloning in the world today. Cloning is a catch all term for many different lines of biotech research. Not all cloning has the goal of creating complete biological creatures. For example, cloning stem cells or cloning DNA fragments are common uses of cloning. This is not to say cloning complete creatures wouldn’t be beneficial. Food supplies both plant and animal are obvious areas where cloning a complete creature could have great benefits. As to cloning a complete human, the technology already exists and yes it will certainly be done by someone at some point. This however would simply be a different method for producing a human. There are already several different methods for producing humans now. Modern fertility techniques allow many parents who would be unable to have children naturally, to have children with assistance be it the use of fertility drugs, the use of a surrogate mother, etc. I would also point out that a form of human cloning has gone on for centuries. Let’s say you are told to go into a room with four adults. Upon entering you see two males who look exactly the same and two females who look exactly the same. You are told one set is identical twins born naturally and one set is a pair of clones. You are now asked to determine which is which. Not only would you be unable to figure this out, neither would modern science. These sets are the same, down to their genetic make-up.
Also, the controversy over cloning may be short lived. Rapid advances in all areas of biotechnology will make cloning complete humans for body parts completely unnecessary. Genetic engineering and nanotechnology are moving fast enough to potentially make the whole cloning issue a mute point.
Norman, OK
Post #: 2
correction: in the last sentence I meant "moot" not "mute" smile
A former member
Post #: 3
This is yet another "fray" that I'm joining late. But I enjoyed reading it so I thought I would contribute something, if only for my own amusement.

In tenth grade, I entered a short story in a contest. Maybe I got "honorable mention," I'm not sure, but it was a convoluted story I'm reminded of here. Bearing in mind that I have always loved science fiction and that I was 16 years old, I'll summarize the story this way: a lab steals a hair from a man, clones him, man finds his clone and kills it. What a story.

These kinds of discussions always confuse me because, for example, when Jamie says that he might oppose human cloning, I'm not sure if he means that he might condemn it if it happened, or that he might advocate making it unlawful. While I was reading that, I was thinking "of course this is yet another thing that is none of the government's business," like marriage, abortion, drug use, prostitution, religion (or lack thereof) and all manner of other topics subsumed under the issue of personal liberty. Somehow, over the course of the history of this country, liberty has become something that is being divided and conquered, one "issue" at a time.

My parents divorced when I was two. I don't know what it's like to have the Leave it to Beaver family, but I don't feel deprived because I don't know anything different than the way things are. I don't expect that a human clone will miss having unique DNA, or that he would begrudge his "twin" for being much older. The only danger I can see involves, as usual, the government: can the government permit itself to recognize a clone as a complete and separate human being with the same rights as any other, or will the government see fit to jail the cloned human for "it's own protection" or some other such bullsh*t reason?
A former member
Post #: 103
Jay & others,

My main point is that how the human clones are treated. Does the gov. just use them for an army? Will clones be made for a specific reason. Like just as some type of workers or whatever. I am worried about the gov getting involved in it is my real prob. As we all know how they can be trusted with anything. The body parts & things like that I am not worried about. As long as they are not " MADE for a REASON " like stated above.

I have no prob with it. I do however think they will raise clones out side of the family. Well like in like a large children's home, that is something to think over. I am thinking maybe like in the book " ANTHEM " If you make 25,000 of the same person. Where will they be raised? They would be like hogs in a grain lot almost. Yet better off I'm sure. These are the probs I am talking about. It may sound like I am crazy, yet I am not. It might could happen. That is what I mean by " MORAL REASON, " I am not against it as of yet may never be. I just think we should think thru all of the likly ways it could go bad. Then proceed with caution. I do not think that is to much to ask at all. Man is very diff than a cow or a sheep. So when they go forward with the clone of a man, we need to be sure that they are treated like a MAN!!!!!!!!

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