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North Texas Objectivist Society (NTOS) Message Board › AR: Faith and Force

AR: Faith and Force

A former member
Post #: 2
AR brilliantly pointed out that faith and force were the principal evils on our planet. Recent revelations concerning child abuse by Catholic priests in the Fort Worth diocese bear perfect testament (pun
intended) to this. "Our Fathers," a book by David France, was a brilliant exposé on the scandal that began in the Boston area and continues to this day, and a review of the film by the same name is worthy of revisiting at this time. France is a friend of my godson, and I found his comments on the DVD intriguing.

I know of no other situation in which AR's favorite two malign elements in our society are so flagrantly
displayed. No church officials have been indicted for their roles, and, in fact, Cardinal Law was promoted and occupies an exalted position in Rome (which calls into question the status of extradition agreements, if any, between the U.S. and the Vatican). Other denominations, of course, have shared similar flaws, but the very
reach of the Catholic church and volume of the crimes it continues to protect worldwide is mind-boggling. The true number of ruined lives will never be known.

Some years ago, I visited a dear friend in seminary training in Fort Worth. Major personality problems among her fellow students were clearly evident, and I had to wonder how my friend could tolerate that environment. Members of the seminary's administration were very upset because they had to pay such high malpractice premiums for the school's counseling arm. One student, an ex-physician, had attended seminary for more than 6 years and, for reasons that were unclear, it appeared he would not and could not ever be ordained (his deep pockets may been contributory). The reality was that this chap had no business being either a priest or a physician, however, one would not be surprised to learn he either is still a student or managed to get ordained some way. The church of my friend is imploding, and the Catholic church is no longer a credible institution. Other denominations have their troubles, too.
Allen, TX
Post #: 91

I hope it is not too far off topic, but your post reminded me of a few lines from Thomas Paine's The Age of Reason:

"I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of. My own mind is my own church.

"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.

"I do not mean by this declaration to condemn those who believe otherwise; they have the same right to their belief as I have to mine. But it is necessary to the happiness of man, that he be mentally faithful to himself. Infidelity does not consist in believing, or in disbelieving; it consists in professing to believe what he does not believe.

"It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief, if I may so express it, that mental lying has produced in society. When a man has so far corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind, as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe, he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime."

(Emphasis added.)
A former member
Post #: 3
I described the symptoms of cultural necrosis, and Tom Paine knew the preventive that has been evident for all these years, yet rarely so well acknowledged and described. One was struck by the cascade of similar news from the Los Angeles diocese, then came two horrific stories of abuse by two Protestant members here in Denton and the huge settlement (undisclosed amount) by the Seattle diocese to avoid bankruptcy. One expects politicians to be corrupt?and they usually meet those expectations, but if there ever was a bankrupt institution, both morally and otherwise, the organized church takes the cake. These examples make one wonder just how bad the situation really is.
A former member
Post #: 48
I particularly dislike the faith and force used by the Left. How else could they promote the ideas of global warming, animal rights, the welfare state, universal health care, and the constant growth of government power in every facet but its proper functioning (protection of man's rights)--without faith and force?

I agree that religious faith is strong (and disgusting) in America, but is this the only kind of faith?
A former member
Post #: 27
oh yeah, religious faith is only one type. Faith, being defined as a belief without proof, is like false knowledge. It's natural to ask questions with difficult and possibly nonexistent answers. To make a correct decision, on facts and logic are needed. To act on faith is like forcing a decision before it's ready to be made. It's force abstracted.
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