align-toparrow-leftarrow-rightbackbellblockcalendarcamerachatcheckchevron-downchevron-leftchevron-rightchevron-small-downchevron-small-leftchevron-small-rightchevron-small-upchevron-upcircle-with-crosscrosseditfacebookglobegoogleimagesinstagramlocation-pinmagnifying-glassmailmoremuplabelShape 3 + Rectangle 1outlookpersonplusImported LayersImported LayersImported Layersshieldstartwitteryahoo

The Sacramento Vegan Meetup Group Message Board › Non-fermented Soy Unhealthy, TVP contains MSG?

Non-fermented Soy Unhealthy, TVP contains MSG?

A former member
Post #: 128
Hi Gang,

Even when I was eating cooked food I was never a big consumer of soy. It just didn't agree with me whether it was soy milk, TVP, or tofu. Dr. Mercola seems to agree and provides a 5 minute video on some of the negative facets of soy. One thing I learned was that TVP (Textured Vegetable Protein-Soy) may contain MSG (Monosodium Glutamate). From everything I've learned on the subject, the only type of soy that's been proven to be beneficial is fermented soy. The main reason being fresh soy is extremely hard to break down, due to its high protein content (not unlike meat). All the studies I've ever heard quoted touting the benefits of soy pick large populations like, I don't know Japan, and try to claim that the sole reason they're healthier than us is their increased soy intake. Studies like this fail to differentiate between consumption of fermented vs. fresh soy and differentiate the increased consumption of one plant food from another. In other words, people in Japan consume a more plant-based diet and are therefore a lower risk of virtually any disease you'd like to measure. For example although Japan smokes more cigarettes per capita they have a reduced risk of lung cancer. Why? They're healthier in general and all organs reap that benefit. I would never argue that soy isn't better for you than say a cheeseburger, but it's certainly not better for you than the majority of fruit and vegetable options (yes I get that soy is a legume).

Dr. Mercola Video

Cheers,
Christian Blackburn
A former member
Post #: 36
Dr. Mercola, in my opinion, exaggerates the evidence that there might be problems with unfermented soy products. I'm skeptical that there are large amounts of MSG in TVP.

People might find the below excerpts from the provided links interesting. I'm not sure if these people are paid by the soy or MSG industry. On the other hand, even if they are, Mercola is working hard to build himself up as a diet guru and I'd imagine money is part of his motivation, too.

Jack

http://www.karenskitc...­

TVP® does NOT have MSG added to it, but glutamic acid, one of the components of the gluten that is a vegetable protein, will be spun off and bond with sodium in the hydrolizing process, so that monosodium glutamate WILL be naturally formed. However, this is more an issue of hysterical reporting. You will find more naturally occuring MSG in other grain foods than you will in TVP®.

But even if it does have MSG, there many be no reason for panic:

http://tinyurl.com/2p...­

This article reviews the literature from the past 40 years of research related to monosodium glutamate (MSG) and its ability to trigger a migraine headache, induce an asthma exacerbation, or evoke a constellation of symptoms described as the "Chinese restaurant syndrome." DATA SOURCES: Literature retrieved by a search using PubMed, Medline, Lexis-Nexus, and Infotrac to review articles from the past 40 years. CONCLUSIONS: MSG has a widespread reputation for eliciting a variety of symptoms, ranging from headache to dry mouth to flushing. Since the first report of the so-called Chinese restaurant syndrome 40 years ago, clinical trials have failed to identify a consistent relationship between the consumption of MSG and the constellation of symptoms that comprise the syndrome. Furthermore, MSG has been described as a trigger for asthma and migraine headache exacerbations, but there are no consistent data to support this relationship. Although there have been reports of an MSG-sensitive subset of the population, this has not been demonstrated in placebo-controlled trials.
A former member
Post #: 1
Dr. Mercola, in my opinion, exaggerates the evidence that there might be problems with unfermented soy products. I'm skeptical that there are large amounts of MSG in TVP.

People might find the below excerpts from the provided links interesting. I'm not sure if these people are paid by the soy or MSG industry. On the other hand, even if they are, Mercola is working hard to build himself up as a diet guru and I'd imagine money is part of his motivation, too.

Jack

Dear Jack,


Dr. Mercola posts his videos on youtube. I don't see how he could benefit in any way financially from the soy or msg industry. How could he be paid by an industry that sells msg or soy if he disapprove of it? What other side of the coin so to speak is paying him to do this against the soy and msg industry? Can you point out one?

Also there is a correlation between lowering consumption of msg and lowering the incidence of symptoms related to msg in studies from NIH. http://www.ncbi.nlm.n...­

This is the very source that you've posted to discredit the side effects of msg.

Sincerely,

Nguyen
A former member
Post #: 37
Hi Nguyen,

I hope things are well in Louisiana. The Sacramento Vegan Meetup can now claim members in both Boston (Hi Maynard!) and Louisiana. Our reach is growing!

Nguyen, I didn't say that Dr. Mercola gets money from the soy or MSG industry. Instead, I was suggesting that Dr. Mercola has financial interests in being a well-known alternative health practitioner. He has a website that sells alternative health products and books. In order to get people to your site to buy your products, it helps to be famous. In order to get famous via nutrition, you normally either have to spend many years doing research at an institution or you have to be saying something extraordinary. Saying things such as 'TVP is high in MSG' gets attention.

The reason I brought this up about the good doctor was because when research or other articles claim that a food a lot of people think is unhealthy (like MSG) is actually not so bad, some people have a knee-jerk reaction to say that the research or articles are simply the work of that industry and can't be trusted. My point was that Dr. Mercola also has financial motivations that should be considered.

You wrote, "Also there is a correlation between lowering consumption of msg and lowering the incidence of symptoms related to msg in studies from NIH. This is the very source that you've posted to discredit the side effects of msg."

The research you point to is not from the NIH, it's from the Northern California Headache Clinic in Mountain View. It just happens to be listed on PubMed which is run by the NIH. Almost everything published in any medical journal in the world is listed on PubMed. The article you point to is from 1991, whereas the article I was pointing out was a 2006 review of previous research (going back 40 years) on MSG. And my point was only that MSG might not be harmful. If people want to avoid MSG, for whatever reason, that's fine with me.

Jack
A former member
Post #: 131
Hi Jack,

It is important to consider the motivations of those producing studies on food additives both those for and against their use. However, history has shown again and again that industry has almost without exception ran a disinformation campaign against anything that might undermine their profits. It is true that many toxins naturally occur in foods, and it's also true that certain additives are more harmful than others. However, the idea that Dr. Mercola is simply a scare-monger in relation to monosodium glutamate is more than a little hard to support. In order for that to be a valid argument you'll have to convince everyone here that Dr. John McDougal, the Physician's Committee for Responsible Medicine, Gary Null, and Dr. T Colin Campbell are all in on his plot.

>You will find more naturally occurring MSG in other grain foods than you will in TVP®.
This is true however, there are two kinds of MSG free and bound. It's the free form that is a flavor enhancer and in natural foods the free form is about 100 times less abundant (see wikipedia table).

All that being said, many of the effects associated with MSG may be the result of a sodium/potassium imbalance (aided by MSG), the effects of eating the fried Asian foods and or packaged processed foods that so often contain it.

Cheers,
Christian Blackburn
A former member
Post #: 39
Hello Christian,

> However, the idea that Dr. Mercola is simply a scare-monger in relation to monosodium glutamate is more than a little hard to support.

In this case, I would say that Dr. Mercola is more of a scare monger about TVP rather than about MSG. In his video, he states that "they also add very high levels of MSG" to soy protein isolate or TVP. (TVP is a brand name of hydrolyzed soy protein.)

I'm actually not 100% sure that no company adds MSG to their hydrolyzed soy protein, but if the site I linked to above is reliable on this point, then TVP doesn't have MSG added to it.

Karen's Kitchen says:

>> You will find more naturally occurring MSG in other grain foods than you will in TVP®.

Christian responded:

> This is true however, there are two kinds of MSG free and bound. It's the free form that is a flavor enhancer and in natural foods the free form is about 100 times less abundant (see wikipedia table).

That chart is a list of glutamate in foods, not monosodium glutamate. The statement above that, "You will find more naturally occurring MSG in other grain foods than you will in TVP®," would not include bound glutamate because bound glutamate is not MSG. While some glutamate will will be spun off of the protein and form MSG during the making of TVP, I'm betting that the vast majority of it remains bound in the protein (otherwise TVP would not be chewy). I tried to find out an exact answer to this, but couldn't find any listing of how much free vs. bound glutamate there is in TVP or other soy protein isolate. I have recently spoke with Dr. Mark Messina who publishes papers on soy and he said that soy does not contain unusually large amounts of free glutamate.


Jack
Powered by mvnForum

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy