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Mailing List Archive

Subject Sender Date
See you at church tonight (Sun. [masked])? - To the Westside Science and Religion Group members, Tonight (Sun. [masked]) there is a community church event where atheists and Christians will discuss why they do or don't believe in the existence of God.  There's even a free meal, startin Bernie D. Apr 26, 2015 10:35 AM
free book (part 2) - (This is sent to three meetup groups so you may get three copies if you are in each group.) Hi all, Also- I forgot to also mention it is free for Amazon Kindle Unlimited customers. That info is here: http://www.amazon.com/Science-­ Bernie D. Nov 29, 2014 11:32 PM
Reminder: Free debate tonight in Beaverton - Reminder- free debate tonight, Tue. [masked] in Beaverton.  Details here: http://www.meetup.com/Philosop­hical-Naturalists/events/19830­1952/ ....Bernie Bernie D. Oct 14, 2014 9:59 AM
The video of the last debate (and discussion) is now posted for free online viewing. - The video of the last debate (and discussion) is now posted for free online viewing.  This was held at Evergreen Presbyterian Church in Beaverton last Sunday [masked]).  The topic was "Does evolution falsify Adam as a "first human?" Many than Bernie D. Oct 4, 2014 7:36 PM
Free discussion on morals tomorrow, Tue. [masked] at lunch time - Reminder, free discussion on morals tomorrow, Tue. [masked] at lunch time at Intel in Hillsboro in their nice auditorium.  The speaker is Brad Berman, from PSU's Philosophy Department.  About half the time is lecture, and half reserved for audience Q Bernie D. Oct 14, 2013 11:14 AM
New Meetup: Argue with a PSU Philosophy Professor - Announcing a new Meetup for Westside Science & Religion Discussion Group! What : Argue with a PSU Philosophy Professor When : Monday, Bernie D. Oct 7, 2013 12:05 PM
Debate follow-up conversation - Last Wed. I debated Christian Steve Gregg on internet radio.  Click here if you'd like to read and participate in some follow-up discussion: http://www.theos.org/forum/vie­wtopic.php?f=70&t=4562   You can listen to the debate Bernie D. Aug 23, 2013 12:52 PM
Update - Hi to those in the Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group- Here's an opportunity if you want to be partly involved in a debate.  I need one volunteer; email me if you are interested: [address removed] Bernie D. Jul 1, 2013 11:18 AM
Upcoming debate at PSU, on[masked] - Hi all- I hope you can make it to the upcoming debate over evolution at Portland State University: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­Talk/events/111366582/ I recently p Bernie D. May 21, 2013 10:22 PM
Free booklet offer "Modern Science and Philosophy Destroys Christian Theology" - Details on how to get the booklet "Modern Science and Philosophy Destroys Christian Theology" for free (limited time offer):http://trumansmith.com/­2013/05/free-booklets-availabl­e-for-amazon-com-customers-rev­iewers/ FYI, from Bernie D. May 6, 2013 12:11 PM
Debate tomorrow, Sunday[masked] - Hi all, Is there any good evidence for the existence of God?  What would the best Christian defenders have to say? Many think that William Lane Craig is one of the best Christian debaters, and tomorrow (Sun. 2-3-13) we'll be discussing t Bernie D. Feb 2, 2013 3:01 PM
Updates (new video posted, upcoming Christian/atheist debate, upcoming logic class) - Hi to those in the Westside Science & Religion Discussion Group, Some news: 1. The last debate was called "What are the strengths & weaknesses of your belief system?" and the video is now posted online here:  http://www.yo Bernie D. Jan 19, 2013 9:47 AM
Reminder for two events this Sunday[masked] - Hi to those in the Westside science and religion discussion group, Reminder, there are two events this Sunday that you might be interested in: 1. Sunday night, there is a free Christian/atheist debate in Beaverton.  Free pizza, too.   Bernie D. Jan 9, 2013 7:56 PM
The Hovind/Dehler debate at PSU last Thur. [masked]) is now online - "If you don't know everything, then you can't know anything... unless you know someone who does" ~Eric Hovind (President of "Creation Today" Ministries) To those in Bernie D. Nov 18, 2012 9:23 AM
Possible debate this Thur. [masked] at PSU - Eric Hovind is coming into town, and I might be able to debate him this Thur. (I'm still waiting for confirmation, but there are some positive signs that they are considering it). Eric Hovind is the son of "Dr. Dino" Kent Hovind who is now doin Bernie D. Nov 13, 2012 2:30 PM
Don't forget to "fall back" tonight - Don't forget to set your clocks back 1 hr. tonight. More info: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lo­okout/time-fall-back-204930002­.html ...Bernie Bernie D. Nov 3, 2012 7:39 PM
Breaking news, Paul Kurtz dead, at age 86 - Paul Kurtz died.  He's an icon in the secular humanist movement.  He's the founder of CFI and many other organizations and author of many books. Info: "HUMANISTS MOURN DEATH OF PAUL KURTZ, HUMANIST PHILOSOPHER A Bernie D. Oct 21, 2012 10:02 PM
Exciting news - I think this is really interesting news. CERN is the organization that has the advanced particle smasher and has perceived the Higgs boson.  So now, they've opened-up an internal discussion/debate as to the Big bang and what role, if any, reli Bernie D. Oct 15, 2012 12:34 PM
FYI- Portland Humanist Film Fest - Hi all, FYI, there is a Portland area Film Fest on Oct. 26, 27, 28.  The two major Portland area Secular Humanist groups, CFI and HGP, are major sponsors (among others). Click here for all details: Bernie D. Oct 11, 2012 2:58 PM
Book review, first draft - Hi to those in the Westside science and religion discussion group, I'm writing an ebook on my journey from evangelical Christianity to atheism, and why I left the faith.  If anyone would like to review the first draft and give me comments by Bernie D. Sep 28, 2012 4:09 PM
FYI- free book offer (until Sunday[masked] - FYI- Free Kindle book from Sam Harris on lying (free until Sunday):   http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ­ct/B005N0KL5G?ie=UTF8&tag=­wwwsamharri02-20&linkCode=­xm2&camp=1789&creative­ASIN=B005N0KL5G Bernie D. Aug 1, 2012 6:33 PM
Westside discussion group update - Hi to those in the Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group, You might have noticed that I created a pen name (or stage name), and am appearing on local cable TV.  My stage name is Truman Smith, and I hope to soon publish under that name. � Bernie D. Jul 22, 2012 7:16 PM
FYI: Online Christian/atheist discussion tonight (Ustream, Thur. [masked] - To the Westside discussion group: There is a TV show videotaping tonight.  We'll try broadcasting on Ustream (over the internet) as a test.  If you want to watch, tune in at 8:30 pm tonight here:http://www.ustream.tv/cha­nnel/that-s-so-chra Bernie D. Jul 12, 2012 1:22 PM
News on 'atheist spirituality' (Sam Harris) - FYI, As an atheist, I have some views quite different than most atheists.  However, one atheistic author that I really like is Sam Harris.  Here's something he's coming-up with, and I feel like I'll be agreeing with him.  I think most (vocal Bernie D. Jun 28, 2012 2:03 PM
out-of-body experiences and OMSI - FYI- a couple of things: 1. In many of our debates, some of the believers have mentioned out-of-body experiences as evidence for the supernatural.  I just listened to this TED talk on neuroscience and what it had to say regarding those kinds o Bernie D. May 28, 2012 9:45 PM
4-9-12 Christian/atheist discussion on the topic of "love" (video now available) - Hi all- On[masked], there was a corporate diversity discussion at a large company in the Portland area between a Christian and an atheist, on the topic of "love.".  Pastor Nathan Lewis represented a Christian viewpoint, and I represented an ath Bernie D. May 25, 2012 12:49 PM
Yesterday's Christian/atheist discussion on "death," now available at YouTube - My internet radio interview (from yesterday) is now online at my YouTube channel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v­=WV2WbwzH33o ...Bernie Bernie D. May 24, 2012 11:24 PM
FYI- new video available - FYI- the video from the "problem of evil" debate on[masked] at Evergreen Presbyterian CHurch (Dehler vs. Lewis) is now available on YouTube for free viewing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v­=h_NTr Bernie D. May 23, 2012 3:05 PM
Christian/atheist discussion on death... - Tomorrow (Wed. [masked]) I'll be on an internet radio show talking about death.  The host is a Christian counselor, and I'll be giving an atheistic perspective.  Tune in from 9-10 am, and you can call-in with a question and/or comment.  All details a Bernie D. May 22, 2012 8:46 PM
Video of the debate last Sunday now online: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v­=IADueVq9iHw - The video of the Christian/atheist debate last Sunday is now online: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v­=IADueVq9iHw You can watch it here, too: <iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/em­bed/IADueVq9iHw" frameborder=" Bernie D. May 15, 2012 11:03 AM
Last event for this season, this Sunday[masked] - Hi to the Westside group- The last event for this season is this Sunday 5-13-12. This is a first in many ways: a debate between an atheist and Christian, and both accept evolution (human descent from other animals).  Also, the Christia Bernie D. May 11, 2012 9:20 PM
Christian/atheist debate this Sunday[masked] - Hi all- As a reminder, here's the info for the debate this Sunday[masked] at Portland State University: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­Talk/events/60138222/ I'm reall Bernie D. May 8, 2012 2:28 PM
misc. updates - Hi all- A few comments for the remaining activities for this school year. 1.      Last Sunday we had a Christian/atheist debate/discussion on "hope."  The video is now online for free viewing: Bernie D. May 3, 2012 12:19 PM
Slides from the last debate - Hi all- Last Sunday on[masked] I debated Pastor Lewis on the topic of theodicy (the problem of evil). I just uploaded my powerpoint slides, in pdf format, if you'd like to see them: Bernie D. Apr 25, 2012 1:55 PM
Mitochondrial Eve... Debate follow-up from last Sunday - Hi all- At the debate last Sunday I spoke about Mitochondrial Eve.  After the event, I thought of a good analogy to explain how she wouldn't really be Eve, nor the first female human.  I wrote an article about it here: Bernie D. Apr 24, 2012 5:09 PM
Tonight, Sun. [masked] at 6 pm, we’ll be having another discussion/debate at the church. - Hi all- Tonight, Sun. [masked] at 6 pm, we’ll be having another discussion/debate at the church. The topic is “The problem of evil.”  I will make a presentation for a naturalistic worldview, and Pastor Nathan will give a Christian Bernie D. Apr 22, 2012 10:20 AM
New debate scheduled, located at Portland State University, Sunday[masked] from 3-5 pm - Here's a new free Christian/atheist debate scheduled for Sunday[masked] at Portland State University.  Click here for all details, and to rsvp: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­Talk/event Bernie D. Apr 17, 2012 9:24 PM
FYI: Event tomorrow, Sunday[masked], 2-4 pm - This was sent to the Vancouver discussion group.  Since it is on Sunday and traffic will be light, many in this Westside group may also be interested. See the message below. ...Bernie .......................... Hi all- tomorrow Bernie D. Apr 14, 2012 7:46 PM
Small Change Announcement - For those in the Westside group, FYI- The "Vancouver Science & Religion Discussion Group" and "Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group" still have the same names, but I changed the web URL that points to them so it is now shorter. &n Bernie D. Apr 9, 2012 4:32 PM
[masked] event feedback - On[masked] we held a debate/discussion on the topic "Does Science Destroy Christianity?" The Christian presenter, David McCorkle, said he'd love to engage people if they have follow-up questions. So I made a discussion thread for it here: Bernie D. Apr 6, 2012 5:04 PM
Science vs. Christianity in Vancouver (Sun. [masked]), and Beaverton (Sun. [masked]) event - The following was sent to the Vancouver group. Westside members may also be interested, so it is also sent here: ----------------------------- Hi all- Our Vancouver event is Sunday[masked] from 2-4 pm. "Does Science Des Bernie D. Apr 5, 2012 11:35 AM
Video now available - Here's a video of the event last Tue. in downtown Portland called "Does Science Destroy Christianity?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v­=1jOhSqzwwwI ...Bernie Bernie D. Mar 29, 2012 8:55 PM
Looking for help this Tue. [masked] at 6 pm. - The next event is at the downtown Portland library this Tue. 3-27-12. The event starts 6:30 pm, but I'm looking for some volunteers to help setup and be greeters, to be there at 6 pm Bernie D. Mar 25, 2012 5:34 PM
Special event this coming Tue. [masked] - RE: "Does Science Destroy Christianity" at the downtown library. All event details are here: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­-Science-Religion-Discus Bernie D. Mar 21, 2012 1:07 PM
New video and upcoming events - Hi to those in the Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group, 1. Last Monday I talked to a high school class at St. Stephen's academy (in Beaverton), where Pastor Nathan Lewis is one of the instructors. I presented a short talk Bernie D. Mar 14, 2012 9:14 PM
Upcoming events - Hi all- I have some interesting upcoming events. I would appreciate your help in advertising these. I have Facebook events made for these, so if you could post this to Facebook, that would greatly help. Everyone has their own Bernie D. Feb 26, 2012 8:15 PM
Changes: Does Science Destroy Christianity? (lecture with audience Q&A) - Details for this event have now firmed-up. This will be our first event ever, at the downtown Portland library, so I'm eager to see how the response will be. My opponent is also a Christian friend and a retired biology professor, David V. M Bernie D. Feb 22, 2012 2:37 PM
Reminder for Sun. event and other items - Hi to those in the Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group, 1. Reminder- Sun. [masked] is our discussion topic on morality at Evergreen Presbyterian Church in Beaverton. Click here for all details: Bernie D. Feb 18, 2012 9:58 PM
Event reminder, video news, etc. - A couple of items: 1. Our next Beaverton event is this Sun. [masked] on the topic of morality. Pastor Nathan will be representing a Christian viewpoint, and Tom Gebhardt will be representing a secular humanist (atheist/agnostic) position. Bernie D. Feb 15, 2012 8:34 AM
Sunday's[masked] debate... slide preview is now available... - RE: "Debate 1-29-12... can the God of the Bible be shown to not exist?" http://www.meetup.com/Vancouve­r-Science-Religion-Discussion-­Group/events/25685401/ I just uploaded my preliminary slide presentation, in case you'd like a preview: Bernie D. Jan 28, 2012 10:59 PM
Mtg. tomorrow (Sunday) and another follow-up discussion - Hi to those in the Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group, Two things: 1.. There is a Christian/atheist debate/discussion event tomorrow at 2 pm in Vancouver. I think the library (and meeting room) where we ar Bernie D. Jan 28, 2012 3:54 PM
Controversial mtg. this Friday - FYI- There's a controversial mtg. this Friday: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­-Science-Religion-Discussion-G­roup/events/45881282/ If you'd like Bernie D. Jan 25, 2012 10:30 PM
Last night's (postponed) event is now rescheduled for Sun. [masked] - Hi to those in the Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group, 1. Yesterday's[masked] event (a debate/discussion on morality) was postponed because of weather. It has now been scheduled for Sun. [masked] at 6 pm. All detai Bernie D. Jan 18, 2012 10:34 PM
Event tonight [masked]) cancelled because of bad weather. - Event tonight [masked]) cancelled because of bad weather. RE: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­-Science-Religion-Discussion-G­roup/events/43499202/ Bernie D. Jan 17, 2012 11:27 AM
Event this Tue. [masked] & misc. - Hi to those in the Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group- 1. This Tuesday [masked]) we will again meet at a Beaverton Church. Please click here for all details: Bernie D. Jan 15, 2012 8:01 PM
[masked] debate is now online & other misc. news - Hi all- For the Westside Discussion group: On[masked] Dennis Marcellino and I had a debate/discussion on "Are we a spirit in a body... or just a body?" It is now online, for free viewing: Bernie D. Jan 2, 2012 10:26 AM
Re: [Westside-Science-Religion-Dis­cussion-Group] A preview for tomorrow's event (event is Tue. [masked] - Preview not available Alan P. Nov 29, 2011 4:52 AM
A preview for tomorrow's event (event is Tue. [masked] - Tomorrow we have our group debate/discussion topic “Are we a spirit in a body ... or just a body?” Details:http://tinyurl.com/3ea­gton So is there any evidence for a supernatural spirit? Christian apologist Greg Koukl (Sta Bernie D. Nov 28, 2011 7:09 PM
Upcoming debate/discussion... soul stuff... - Hi all- next week (Tue. [masked]) we have an interesting topic for our debate/discussion. We are going to be discussing whether or not there is a spiritual sense. Topic: "Are we a spirit in a body ... or just a body?" Details:http:// Bernie D. Nov 22, 2011 8:25 PM
Re: [Westside-Science-Religion-Dis­cussion-Group] Two new meetups scheduled - ? date next meeting beaverton gruop at apatments just off of murry. --- On Mon, 10/10/11, Bernie Dehler <[address removed]> wro user 1. Nov 2, 2011 4:42 PM
A new meetup is scheduled: What is "Atheist Spirituality?" - I've added this Meetup topic: "What is 'Atheist Spirituality?' ". For more details, see the full listing: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­-Science-Religion- Bernie D. Oct 18, 2011 9:42 PM
Reminder for tomorrow's event (Mon. [masked]) on prayer and meditation... and some more info on the meeting description - All info for tomorrow's (Mon. [masked]) event is here: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­-Science-Religion-Discussion-G­roup/events/19854551/ Bernie D. Oct 16, 2011 6:30 PM
RE: [Westside-Science-Religion-Dis­cussion-Group] Looking for a debate... the week of Dec. 12, 2011 - I'd be willing to debate you again, but it would have to user 1. Oct 14, 2011 5:38 PM
RE: [Westside-Science-Religion-Dis­cussion-Group] Looking for a debate... the week of Dec. 12, 2011 - Hey du Lisa K. Oct 13, 2011 12:50 PM
Looking for a debate... the week of Dec. 12, 2011 - Hi all- I'd like to debate someone the week of Dec. 12. It could be anyone of any faith, or another atheist if we disagree on something. Let me know if you have any ideas: [address removed] . It will be at the Hillsboro Mai Bernie D. Oct 13, 2011 10:51 AM
Anyone for atheist/agnostic spirituality? - Hi to those in the Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group- If you are an atheist and/or agnostic and are interested in exploring how 'spirituality' can be practiced from a naturalistic perspective (there's nothing supernatural) Bernie D. Oct 11, 2011 9:23 PM
Two new meetups scheduled - Just a quick note as we've added two new meetups, and I think the first one only went to the email of a few people because it was sent incorrectly. Here's the two new meetups: [masked]: Christian/atheist dinner/discussion/debate o Bernie D. Oct 10, 2011 5:12 PM
Another new meetup scheduled: Christian/atheist dinner/discussion/debate on morality - We added a new meetup. For more details, see the full listing: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­-Science-Religion-Discussion-G­roup/events/19854691/ Bernie D. Oct 10, 2011 5:06 PM
New meetup scheduled: Dinner/discussion/debate "Are we a spirit in a body ... or just a body?" - I've created this Meetup. For more details, see the full listing: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­-Science-Religion-Discussion-G­roup/events/34191042/ Bernie D. Oct 9, 2011 10:38 AM
Reminder: Event discussion this Sunday[masked] (worldviews) : 17720 NE Halsey St. Portland - FYI- the following was sent to the Vancouver group. It is also now sent to the Westside group in case there's interest. See below. ...Bernie ======================== Hi to those in the Vancouver Science and Religion Bernie D. Oct 4, 2011 9:36 PM
RE: [Westside-Science-Religion-Dis­cussion-Group] Friday event - Hi Bernie, I'm working now and somebody at work became very ill. He should be ok in a few weeks, but I've been working my head off and haven' user 1. Sep 22, 2011 6:41 PM
RE: [Westside-Science-Religion-Dis­cussion-Group] Friday event - user 1. Sep 22, 2011 12:20 PM
Friday event - Hi all- I tried to send this yesterday, but I don't think it went out to the Westside group (the Vancouver group did get it). My apologies if you saw this reminder already. ...Bernie ==============================­=== Hi to Bernie D. Sep 22, 2011 12:14 PM
A great event this Friday,[masked]! (Does life have meaning?) - Hi to those in the Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group- This Friday [masked]) we have a really interesting event. I think it will be one of the best, for a number of reasons. Here is all the info: "Doe Bernie D. Sep 21, 2011 9:08 AM
Reminder- dinner/discussion/debate tomorrow, Mon. [masked] in Beaverton - Dear members of The Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group, Just a reminder that tomorrow night, Mon. [masked], we have our discussion event called "Does the theory of biological evolution damage or destroy Christianity?" For Bernie D. Sep 18, 2011 5:43 PM
Religion and spirituality without God... a new group. - Hi to those in the Westside group- If you don't believe in God but still want to practice 'spirituality,' we have a group for that. The first meeting is this Thursday, 9-8-11. See this for all details and to rsvp: Bernie D. Sep 6, 2011 2:42 PM
[masked] debate (venue changes) - Ok- same date, earlier time, different place (now Hillsboro Main library), and now... free food. Details:http://www.meetup.com/­Westside-Science-Religion-Disc­ussion-Group/events/21396341/ Bernie D. Sep 2, 2011 2:36 PM
[masked] debate (venue changes) - Re: the[masked] debate: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­-Science-Religion-Discussion-G­roup/events/21396341/ The venue was Intel, but I'm told it Bernie D. Sep 1, 2011 5:22 PM
Oregonian articles for our events... how to help publicize... free... - Hi to those in the Westside Science and Religion Discussion Group, My upcoming events have blog articles written in the Oregonian newspaper online (oregonlive.com). Please feel free to log-in and leave a comment, positive or negative, to Bernie D. Sep 1, 2011 10:45 AM
Re: [Westside-Science-Religion-Dis­cussion-Group] How to mix evolution with evangelical Christianity... - p { margin: 0; } opt out From: "Bernie Dehler" <[address removed]> To: Westside-Sc Lisa Aug 29, 2011 3:28 PM
Re: [Westside-Science-Religion-Dis­cussion-Group] How to mix evolution with evangelical Christianity... - Wow. It is weird to get a neutral, even-handed email from you. --- On Mon, 8/29/11, Bernie Dehler <[address removed]> wrote: user 6. Aug 29, 2011 3:08 PM
How to mix evolution with evangelical Christianity... - Hi all- When I was an evolutionary creationist, my theological role-model (when it comes to theology) was Dr. Denis Lamoureux, a Prof. in Canada that has three Ph.D.'s (two in science and one in theology). He' Bernie D. Aug 29, 2011 1:08 PM
FYI- upcoming schedule of Christian/atheist debates/discussions - All my debates and discussions from both groups) are listed here for easy reference: http://tinyurl.com/3d3atzh Bernie D. Aug 21, 2011 11:13 PM
Re: [Westside-Science-Religion-Dis­cussion-Group] Meetup details finalized: Christian/Atheist debate "Does the fossil record show evolution?" - Sounds interesting; I have not looked at how YECs handle all the recent fossil finds regarding whale evolution, especially ones comin Jon P. Aug 20, 2011 6:18 PM
Meetup details finalized: Christian/Atheist debate "Does the fossil record show evolution?" - I've finalized this Meetup. For more details, see the full listing: http://www.meetup.com/Westside­-Science-Religion-Discussion-G­roup/events/21396341/ Bernie D. Aug 20, 2011 12:01 AM
Vancouver event- need help - Here's a new event scheduled for Vancouver on Sun. [masked]: "Christian vs. Atheist Mock Debate (Dehler vs. Rose)" http://www.meetup.com/Vancouve­r-Sci Bernie D. Aug 2, 2011 3:19 PM
Need help; looking for theist debaters in Vancouver - Hi all, I'm having difficulty finding theist debaters for the Vancouver series of atheist/theist debates/discussions. Do you guys have any ideas? It could be a Christian Pastor, seminary professor, Muslim, Jewish, Hindu, etc. Bernie D. Jul 31, 2011 6:01 PM
New meetup scheduled: Christian/atheist debate/discussion, "Does Life have Meaning?" (Canby location) - The following event should be really interesting. It is a Christian/atheist debate/discussion at a Bible college with two Christian professors (2-on-2). See below for details. ...Bernie ------------ I've added this M Bernie D. Jul 30, 2011 10:59 PM

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