"At any rate, we will get farther by disseminating new information about human intelligence, physiology, evolution, etc. than if we would try to win against the outdated ideology in it's own game."
In a more perfect world, this would be enough- it is the best path for working towards a new Enlightenment.
This is veering way off of Maude's thread, but we can steer back to that.
I will attempt to put forth a point with 3 questions:
1) If all Americans were able to participate in a poll with the question "Should an Atheist be guaranteed the same constitutional rights, protections, and freedoms as a Christian?", what percentage do you think would answer "no"?
2) Since there is substantial evidence that 3 of the 4 great Americans carved onto Mt. Rushmore were NOT practicing Christians, in fact the same 3 may have even been (gulp)... 'doubters', how can it be that here in 2007, only ONE
U.S. official is brave enough to "come out" as having no god-belief??? (Rep. Pete Stark, crusty old Democrat of California... even he back-pedaled and stated that he attends a "Unitarian Universalist" church) (!)
3) How can we NOT want to "pick the brains" of a HUGE contingent of people who (supposedly) wholeheartedly believe that the ultimate fate of Humankind- & the Universe itself- lies in one 2,000 year-old mythical man/god who was concieved without sperm, who was killed but then reborn, who now resides in a completely unknown place hangin' out with his "Father", but will soon return to singlehandedly judge all of us, even folks who have been dead for hundreds & hundreds of years, and the lack of belief in whom will cause one to be "cast into the lake of fire'? (and this isn't even "fundamentalist").
I think it's ALL good.
On Nov 21,[masked]:52 PM, ILYA <[address removed]> wrote:
Hello fellow humans...
Let me start my first post with a bit of a critique.
It appears to me that attempts to chip away at Xtians' believe are a royal waist of time. Religion is a collection of self perpetuating memes that have survived and have been strengthen by doubters.
What power, do you think, reasonable questioning of belief has, if such atrocities like Holocaust had strengthened people's religious belief in the past? Questioning one's religious perceptions is walking into their playing field and trying to win by their rules.
I suggest to read up on HItchens, Dawkins, Pinker, and other bright forward thinking individuals and lead those discussions into understanding of our species.
Majority of people that belong to the church related crowd talk science and show interest in well presented subject and become totally oblivious to it's contradiction to the religious dogma. Once the information is planted in their heads it becomes foundation for the new outlook on the world.
At any rate, we will get farther by disseminating new information about human intelligence, physiology, evolution, etc. than if we would try to win against the outdated ideology in it's own game.
There are two kinds of people: the kind that divide the world into two kinds of people and the kind that DO NOT.
Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to everyone on this mailing list (
This message was sent by ILYA ([address removed]) from The Cleveland Freethinkers.
To learn more about ILYA, visit his/her member profile:
To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings, click here:
Meetup.com Customer Service: [address removed]
632 Broadway New York NY 10012 USA