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August B.
augustberkshire
Minneapolis, MN
Post #: 22
Jordan, has it occurred to you that hell is an invention to get people to believe on an emotional basis (fear) something that they cannot believe on a logical basis? It is psychological abuse and I fear you may have succumbed to it.
A former member
Post #: 5
Hello August,
Thank you for your reply. I have thought about that numerous times and it is something I too once struggled with and which caused me not to believe in God. Hell is no invention to get people to believe on an emotional basis and it is far from psychological abuse because I firmly believe that I have done many bad things in my life because I am bad off to start with and I am still far from perfect and I deserved to be punished eternally for my wrong doings because my bad things. We all deserve Hell. Period. You may think being punished forever is a way too extreme but my bad things carry that much of a penalty. When I realized that I am morally evil, dead in sin, and deserving Gods wrath with no way out on my own I began to discover the desperate need for Christ. Christ is way more than a ticket out of hell He is to be treasured. God has to punish sin and He either has to punish it in me or Christ. I choose Christ. Sin is very serious and once we realize how serious sin is then we start realizing that we are dependent upon Christ who is the Son of God. So we all deserve Hell including me I don't deserve Gods grace and mercy which He gives us freely and we don't have to work for it.
A former member
Post #: 6
Hello John,
Thank you for replying. Zeus as we all know is a Greek god. One of the most striking aspects of Greek mythology is the number of gods. The most important of all the gods are the twelve Olympians (Zeus, Hera, Poseidon, Demeter, Athena, Apollo, Artemis, Ares, Aphrodite, Hephaestus, Hermes, and Dionysus), who came to power after overthrowing the Titans. To a large degree, the Greek gods share the same vices as humans, proving themselves to be as fallible as mortals are. At the heart of these conflicts and the drama of Greek mythology is the principle that the Greek gods are not and indeed are not expected to be just: they are strikingly similar to super-powered human beings, filled with the same imperfections of will. Indeed, they frequently cause the noble to suffer or die for petty, all too human reasons. The Greek concept of eternal life is a life based on works to get to a better place. In Greek mythology, the only hope for long life and happiness on earth is to live a heroic life and to offer many sacrifices and libations to all of the gods, in the hope of appeasing them all and offending none. If through their actions, people are fortunate enough to stand in the good favor of the gods at the time of their death, they will live for eternity in Elysium, but if they have offended the gods, they face worse fates in the depths of the underworld. Thus in the Greek tradition, all hope of salvation lies in one’s works. So with all that being said Greek mythology is just that, a myth and provides no comfort, peace or security for the human. Like the other religions it is a worked based religion and that is why I hate religion because religion is built on the fact what we do to get to god(s).
Jordan

Ps. Didn't mean to leave out the website I got this information, thanks for pointing that out.
http://blog.dartmouth...­
Chris P.
user 9488180
Minneapolis, MN
Post #: 2
I don't feel like a productive conversation can be had with Jordan when his opinion of the female gender is something like this..


'you gotta find a perfect chick and hump and hump her till she gets pregnant so then u can marry her...some random drunk guy'


It may be 'jokey' to you but as a woman who has spent the last two years defending my right to reproductive health services I find it quite insensitive..

Greg L.
user 58201822
Minneapolis, MN
Post #: 1
Jordan, I appreciate the questions you are asking and all but there are a couple of things going on here that should be pointed out. First thing: You may not realize this from your end but many of us have done this before. We are approached by someone who wants to argue about Atheism, and a discussion like this one ensues. Almost always the same things are said, and almost always at some point an Atheist points out some important question, and almost always the non-Atheist makes a counter argument by going to the Internet and finding one, then cutting and pasting it as though he or she had come up with it independantly.

In this case, your discussion of Greek gods is here: http://blog.dartmouth...­

(although you may have gotten it from some other site where it was previously copied to.)

Most of us Atheists in this group try to practice something that might be called "skepticism" or "rational thought" which in turn involves asking questions, learning over time how to better formulate questions, having knowledge, or access to knowledge, learning how to gain more knowledge, and then applying critical thinking to address the questions with a grounding in that knowledge. Part of that involves what we call proper attribution. If you provide an idea or bit of knowledge, where possible it is good to note where it comes from, especially basic data and facts. But the simplest and most straight forward form of attribution is this: When you have a chunk of text that you think contains important information or reasoning about some issue, you cite it with a link. If you want to use the text as it is because it is just right for your argument, you provide it as a quote and attribute the original source.

There might be an irony here; among scholars, and most of the people on this list are either professional or avocational scholars of a sort, copying text without attribution is highly unethical. In our society, it is actually illegal. One could say it is immoral.

One of the arguments non-Atheists like to make is that religion is needed for moral guidance. Atheists argue that this is not true, and that while religion CAN be used for moral guidance, it is also often a source of amoral or even immoral behavior because people feel justified to do things that are recognized as wrong because they are answering to a "higher authority."

Now that you know that Pluralism is theft, I'm sure you won't do it again. But I may be wrong. Perhaps the higher authority you believe in excuses you from this? Think about it.

Otherwise, interesting discussion.

Rhonda
user 12952364
Minneapolis, MN
Post #: 16
Jordan, "you gotta find a perfect chick and hump and hump her till she gets pregnant so then u can marry her...some random drunk guy". I copied and pasted this from your list of favorite quotes on your Facebook page. Offensive, disgusting, and immature. I feel sad for YOU!
D. M.
user 13079787
Rosemount, MN
Post #: 3
I knew it would only be a matter of time when the, "I hate religion.." statement would be made. I can't wait to hear the, "God hates religion.." statement too. Debates can be a learning experience, but when you debate with someone who can only use circular reasoning, you're better off talking to a wall... You might actually get the wall to answer the question.
A former member
Post #: 4

Not trying to be a troll!
Sure you are :)

Just want to learn more about what you stand for...
We (I assume you mean atheists) do not stand for anything as atheists specifically, not much to learn about at all, other than:

...and what atheism is all about.
Atheism is to lack any belief in gods.

It's that simple.

Chris P.
user 9488180
Minneapolis, MN
Post #: 3
Can he please kicked off the group? The meetup, for me, is to meet other atheists, not 'debate' the religious.. Just asking.
A former member
Post #: 11
Can he please kicked off the group? The meetup, for me, is to meet other atheists, not 'debate' the religious.. Just asking.

I would rather Jordan respect that this is a Meetup group and a place for members to discuss the events. There are enough places we go where we have to deal with all of the same tired explanations and justifications and debates that we have run into all of our fucking lives, or at least all of our atheist lives.

Jordan, please go somewhere else if you want to have a debate on this. The internet is big and this is our small little corner. If you don't want to respect our space, I want you to be kicked out of here as well.
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