addressalign-toparrow-leftarrow-rightbackbellblockcalendarcameraccwcheckchevron-downchevron-leftchevron-rightchevron-small-downchevron-small-leftchevron-small-rightchevron-small-upchevron-upcircle-with-checkcircle-with-crosscircle-with-pluscontroller-playcrossdots-three-verticaleditemptyheartexporteye-with-lineeyefacebookfolderfullheartglobegmailgooglegroupshelp-with-circleimageimagesinstagramFill 1light-bulblinklocation-pinm-swarmSearchmailmessagesminusmoremuplabelShape 3 + Rectangle 1ShapeoutlookpersonJoin Group on CardStartprice-ribbonprintShapeShapeShapeShapeImported LayersImported LayersImported Layersshieldstartickettrashtriangle-downtriangle-uptwitteruserwarningyahoo

DFW Theology & Apologetics Meetup Message Board › Response to Joey: Do I believe Y’shua is the messiah

Response to Joey: Do I believe Y’shua is the messiah

A former member
Post #: 5
4.) Do I believe Y’shua is the messiah.

Y’shua is certainly a messiah (Ex 19:6), a son of G-d (Ro 8:13 17), a truth teller/prophet (Amos 2:10 11) and god (John 10:34 36).

In order to explain whether Y’shua is “The” messiah I have to establish a few things.

Judaism should be a carefully balanced system of:
Remembering the past
Experiencing the present
Looking toward the future

Joseph was the messiah of his generation, Moses the messiah of his generation and Y'shua the messiah of his generation. Y'shua overcame 2000 years of calcified Torah observance and in taking us back to our faith roots in Abraham established a new paradigm. Ideally every generation should have it's own messiah (Gen 45:7, Ezra 9:8).

Remembering Y'shua is part of remembering the past, but Y'shua is no longer alive. Any worship of Y'shua or even Moses is necromancy (De 18:11). Y'shua was a god/man but not like Hercules, whose deeds could not be duplicated by the common man.

If Y'shua was superhuman or supernatural the statement in John 14:12 would make no sense.

John 14:12 `Amen, Amen, I say to you, he who is believing in me, the works that I do that one also shall do, and greater than these he shall do, ...

Every generation remembers the past in order to learn from the past and not repeat the mistakes of the past.

Living in the present we look to the maggidim (the sages) to interpret and explain the scriptures. In the case of a shoah (clamity) HaShem has provided a pelaytah (an escape) this escape is often in the form of man (as Joseph was a remnant/escape to his people 'the seventy being symbolic of the whole world').

In the future we expect HaShem will come down in a cloud and call his servants to him. Both the living and the dead will hear their master’s voice (Isa 55:3) and come.

Alternately Y’shua will call his disciples to him and they will rise, both the living and the dead, to their master’s voice (John 10:27). Since Y’shua is the voice of HaShem the statements are equivalent.

Addendum 1:
Gen 45:7-8 and G-d sent me before you, to place of you a remnant in the land, and to give life to you by a great escape; and now, you you have not sent me hither, but God, and He does set me for a father to Pharaoh, and for lord to all his house, and ruler over all the land of Egypt.

the word translated remnant (sh’airit) should be translated vanguard, those who go on ahead to establish a foothold in a strange land. In effect this vanguard are the future messiahs of those who flee adverse conditions.

Addendum 2:
Micah 5:2 is often interpreted as a prophesy that the birthplace of the messiah would be Bethlehem.

Matt 2:1-6
And Y’shua having been born in Beit Lechem of Yehudah, ... And Herod the king having heard, was stirred, and all Yerushalayim with him, and having gathered all the chief priests and scribes of the people, he was inquiring from them where the anointed is born. And they said to him, `In Beit Lechem of Yehudah, for thus it has been written through the prophet,

‘And you, Beit Lechem, the land of Yehudah, you are by no means the least among the leaders of Yehudah, for out of you shall come one leading, who shall feed My people Yisra'el.'

The actual reading in Micah is somewhat different.

Micah 5:1-5 Now gather yourself together, O daughter of troops, A siege he has laid against us, With a rod they smite on the cheek the judge of Yisra'el.

And you, Beit Lechem Efratah, Little to be among the chiefs of Yehudah! From you to Me he comes forth to be ruler in Yisra'el,

And his comings forth [are] of old, From the days of antiquity. Therefore he does give them out till the time She who brings forth has brought forth, And the remnant of his brethren return to the sons of Yisra'el. And he has stood and delighted in the strength of HaShem, In the excellency of the name of HaShem his G-d, And they have remained, For now he is great unto the ends of earth. And this [one] has been peace, Asshur! when he does come into our land, And when he does tread in our palaces, We have raised against him seven shepherds, And eight anointed of man.

(among the thousands is interpreted as chiefs based on Jos 22:14.)

Bethlehem son of Efratah of the tribe of Judah is actually a person not a place.

1 Chron 4:1-4
The sons of Yehudah: ... Hur, ... These are the sons of Hur, the firstborn of Efratah, the father of Beit Lechem.

Beit-Lechem was the son of Efratah the son Hur, Hur was of the tribe of Yehudah.
This makes Beit-Lechem Efratah of the tribe of Yehudah.
Hur was first born of Efratah and a chief of Judah
This makes Beit-Lechem Efratah among the chiefs of Yehudah.

Micah 5:2 is nothing more than a repetition of:
Genesis 49:10 The scepter will not depart from Yehudah, Nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, ...

The joke is Herod, the false king, asks his false prophets for a prophesy of birthplace of Messiah. Of course the false prophets give a false prophesy. Coincidentally Beit-Lechem is both a person and a place so they just change chief of Yehudah to land of Yehudah to make the prophesy sound legitimate. The twist ending to the joke is that Y’shua is actually born in Beit-Lechem.

This is alternate reading from the LXX:

And you Bethlehem, of the house of Ephratha, are very few being among the thousands of Judah; from out of you to me shall come forth the one being for ruler of Israel; and his goings forth were from the beginning, from [of days].

Of course no Jew takes Micah 5:2 to be a prophesy of the birthplace of the messiah being Bethlehem. This stands to reason since every man regardless of where he is born has the potential to become messiah.


HaShem is literally 'the name' used in place of 'YHVH' often translated Jehovah in English.
god is the English translation of 'elohim', the term should more properly be translated judge.
Powered by mvnForum

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy