INTRODUCING THE PHILOSOPHERS Epicureanism and Stoicism

Important: First please read about the aims and requirements of this group in What we're about. To find it click on blue Introducing the Philosophers above.

This meetup requires more preparation. If you want to attend you need to start reading and thinking about the topic early on.

Epicureanism and Stoicism both appeared in the early 3rd century BC. To put them in the context of the Hellenistic philosophy please read the short summaries of each school of thought in this link.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hellenistic_philosophy

Epicurean key notion: It is impossible to live a pleasant life without living wisely and well and justly (agreeing "neither to harm nor be harmed") and it is impossible to live wisely and well and justly without living a pleasant life.
Read the following on Epicureanism in Wikipedia and think about the questions that follow.
Essential reading:
Introduction
Philosophy
Ethics
Tetrapharmacos
Optional reading:
History
Religion
Modern usage and misconceptions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicureanism

1. It could be argued that pleasure defined as the absence of pain alone is hardly pleasure. In other words, if we have no physical, emotional or mental pain we are in a state of pleasure. What do you think of this Epicurean claim?
2. Epicurus gave prominence to the pleasures of the mind, as opposed to those of the body, and at the same time discouraged learning, culture and civilisation as giving rise to pleasures difficult to satisfy. Do you see a contradiction in this?
3. Would you say the Epicurean concept of a happy life is consistent or inconsistent with the absence of a god who interferes in human affairs and the absence of an afterlife?
4. In today's complex world, is it possible to live a 'simple life' as advocated by Epicurus?
5. Epicurus' notion of justice was an agreement 'neither to harm nor be harmed'. How effective would you say this notion is in contributing to a just and peaceful society? How does this compare with our contemporary notion of justice and laws?

Stoic ideals: Happiness is acquired by attaining virtue, or excellence of character, which in turn is acquired by ‘living according to nature’. The goal should be attainment of tranquility in the midst of struggles and joy.
Watch the video (14 mns) on Stoicism from the Academy of Ideas or read the text and consider the questions that follow.
http://academyofideas.com/2014/04/introduction-to-stoicism/
6. The Stoics claim that the root of our unhappiness lies in the fact that we try to control what's beyond our control (other people's actions and opinions, our own wealth and health); instead we should seek to cultivate what's within our control, things that emanate from our own mind (our own opinions, judgements, desires, goals). Does this mean passive acceptance of and indifference to what happens around us if it doesn't affect us?
7. What do you think of the stoics' approach to dealing with misfortunes (loss, ill health, etc) that 'it is not these things in themselves that are bad but our judgement of them'.
8. Adversity fortifies us so we should welcome it. Do you agree?
9. The Stoic notion of determinism argues that although everything in the world around us is predetermined we still have some freedom in the way we respond to what happens to us and thus can control its effect on our life and happiness. In a predetermined world is it at all possible for us to exercise any control on, if not the course of events themselves, the effects of those events.

10. If you wanted to make a list of the main differences between Epicureanism and stoicism, what would it look like?
11. Human failings, such as greed, selfishness, envy, pride, thirst for power etc have over the history of humanity caused wars, personal enmities and much suffering. Which of the two philosophies, Epicureanism or Stoicism, do you think would be more effective at controlling and perhaps totally suppressing these failings?