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Re: Re: [NYC-rb] a RoR class for developers @ GA in January

From: Akshay K.
Sent on: Thursday, December 22, 2011 11:26 AM

On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 9:02 AM, Akshay Kumar <[address removed]> wrote:
Sorry boys but this is a complete ripoff no matter who is paying or how you slice it. If you are going to be "shamelessly advertising" on the list then it's __fair_play if you get some blowback from the list.

To publicly call someone a "ripoff artist" is borderline libelous. Certainly douchey.

I didn't call anyone a "ripoff artist" merely pointed out how the 2800$ course is a horrible deal and hence a ripoff as in a bad financial transaction not as in copy or an imitation. Libelous? Not even close. Douchey? Hardly when it's in reply to someone promoting his services on a public forum. He admits it's "shameless advertising", his words not mine. So if I have an opposing opinion he should be able to sit there and defend it all night long. It's fair game.
But this is essentially paying 2800$ to two guys in a truck.
I have no issues charging people a lot of money for my time and experience, and I'm only one guy, in a station wagon I got from my parents.

You *do* have an issue with paying a lot of money for education, otherwise you wouldn't have taken the time to write all that. You believe that your 6 weeks of self-study is cheaper than, and superior to, the education provided by the party in question, and believe they're ripping people off. That's "having an issue".

Of course I have an issue. I have an issue with asking people to pay 2800$ for sub standard material not with spending money on education. There is better information readily available for less. I don't see what's so hard to grasp there.

As someone coming from a systems background who just started doing some web development I taught myself Ruby and Rails and it was nowhere near 2800$.

If you're not billing for the time you spent learning it, perhaps. If you do, and charge yourself a reasonable rate, then you learned Rails in what, 48 hours? I've been doing Rails for off and on for years, and I *still* wouldn't claim I "know Ruby and Rails". (Background: 20+ years of development, strong dynamic language background, thoroughly comfortable with metaprogramming, blah blah blah.)

In the words of a famous philosopher that is just __bullcrap. Either way you are going to have to spend time practicing and learning. On your own time at your own pace. 4 hrs a week for 6 weeks  spent in a course alone is going to do absolutely nothing if you are not motivated. Any sort of learning requires complete immersion. Anything serious anyway. There are no short cuts. You can either do it correctly now or just waste time later. If after 2 years of Rails you don't know how the Ruby object system works then you are in trouble. I have seen this lots of times with Rails people. Again, this is meant for serious people doing non trivial things.There is a significant learning curve to Rails.
That's all the Ruby you need to know for < 50$ on amazon. That should take you about a week or 2 weeks or maybe a bit more depending on your pace.

Reading a book for a week or two doesn't mean you "know Ruby". Even if you run all the examples. And create examples of your own. Book-fu is not a replacement for time.

Of course it's not. Neither is instructor-fu. But this is at least solid foundation. It also depends a bit on your background. Say you are moving over from Python I'd say a week is more than enough to get pretty damn decent. You might need to look over things once in a while but your fundamentals are good.
For a second book I'd say use Jose Valim's Crafting Rails Application. He is the author of Devise and on the core team. It covers a ton of useful topics like writing generators, railties, rendering stack, active model, nosql examples and more. That's another 2 weeks and 50$ more to learn Rails.

I'd replace that with "Rails Antipatterns", which is of more immediate value to almost any Rails developer, particularly new ones.

Crafting... is a great book, but teaches a different class of techniques. Good ones, but ones that do not make an immediate, measurable difference in code quality, when compared to Antipatterns.

I wanted to do something non standard with Devise and so I needed to learn everything I possibly could about Engines fast. Crafting was great for that. Antipatterns is good but I am talking bare minimum to be able to serious things.

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