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Bi-Weekly Discussion - The Debate Over Reparations

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Brian B.
Bi-Weekly Discussion - The Debate Over Reparations

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This is going to be an online meetup using Zoom - it's easy to use & free to join.

Here's the link to the event: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88455115689?pwd=RnRzck5KYXZGR09Fd3I4QTFqSVVmdz09

Meeting ID: 884 5511 5689
Password: 072918

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THE DEBATE OVER REPARATIONS

INTRODUCTION:

The topic of reparations to African-Americans for the legacy of slavery & the legalized discrimination of the Jim Crow era emerged last year as a major issue in the Democratic Party's presidential primary debates. Some candidates made somewhat vague promises while others had specific proposals; for example, Cory Booker floated a proposal for "baby bonds" while Bernie Sanders touted James Clyburn's 10-20-30 Plan. So far, Joe Biden has only called for a commission to study the issue.

I figured it would be useful for our group to break down the issue of reparations into its components and analyze them individually...

The first half of this discussion looks at the harms of slavery & Jim Crow and their legacy for African-Americans today. The 1st section looks at the economic harms from these historic injustices and their contribution to the racial wealth gap, while the 2nd section looks at the alleged psychological & social harms that have echoed down through the generations. We can think of this as analogous to "pecuniary damages" (lost wages) and "pain & suffering" in a civil suit.

The second half of this discussion looks at what we should do as a society to address these harms. The 3rd section looks at the ethical debates over "collective guilt" and "white privilege" and how they figure into how we should assess who's responsible for paying reparations. The 4th section looks at specific programs that have been been tried in the past or recently proposed as "de facto reparations" and we'll see how experts assess their likelihood of achieving the desired outcomes.

RELEVANT MATERIAL FROM RELATED MEETUPS:

We had a discussion in the summer of 2017 where we covered property rights from the perspective of "classical liberalism". The 2nd section specifically dealt with the ethical arguments surrounding reparations for slavery & Indian removal.
https://www.meetup.com/Philadelphia-Political-Agnostics/events/242037334/

Although most of our other discussions haven't expressly discussed slavery or Jim Crow, we've focused on racial bias & its negative social outcomes a number of times:

In May of 2018, we had a meetup entitled "Does America Offer Equal Opportunity?" where we looked at the effects of family upbringing & residential factors, college admissions & graduation rates, hiring biases & career decisions, and how all of these factors contribute to the racial & gender wage gaps. In general, it looks like upbringing has a big role in determining income mobility and racial hiring biases are still prevalent. But there's also a misplaced tendency to see college as a panacea for problems, and a lot of the information in the news media on wage gaps neglects the role of individual educational & career choices on racial income disparities.
https://www.meetup.com/Philadelphia-Political-Agnostics/events/xvbrznyxgbtb/

We had a meetup in the summer of 2017 where we discussed the problem of wage stagnation since the 1970s and the meager results of the "War on Poverty" (reducing poverty rate from 19% to 15% in 50 years). One of the major takeaways from this discussion was that poverty is mostly a result not of low wages but unemployment & part-time employment, and it's also tied to the decline of marriage and the two-parent family.
https://www.meetup.com/Philadelphia-Political-Agnostics/events/238805096/

We covered the effect of race on economic success in the fall of 2017 called "Deep Culture and the American Dream". We looked at arguments surrounding the alleged "culture of poverty" that holds back both poor urban blacks & poor rural whites, and contrasted this with the cultural traits of "model minorities" like Jewish Americans & Asian Americans that allegedly lead them to be successful. The general takeaway was that experts are divided on the question of whether culture is the ultimate or merely proximate cause of an individual's economic success or failure.
https://www.meetup.com/Philadelphia-Political-Agnostics/events/zgmddnywnbcb/

In April of 2018, the Skeptics meetup examined the data on racial bias in police use of force incidents in the U.S. Two of the basic takeaways was that the data collection & aggregation on police use of force isn't very comprehensive, and there is a lot of dishonest "massaging" of statistics in both the liberal & conservative news media to either support or counter the charges of systematic racism by police. They looked at the debates over the Roland Fryer study that showed racial bias in police use of non-lethal force but not in lethal force, as well as a Michigan State study that found suspects are most likely to be shot by police officers of their own race. They also discussed Ezra Klein's debate with Scott Alexander following a post where Scott stated that the studies that control for crime rate differentials indicate there's ambiguity about the level of racial bias in police stops & minor drug arrests, but there seems to be little or no racial bias in arrests for violent crime, prosecutions or convictions. Scott claimed racial bias is only unambiguously present in sentencing at a level of 10-20%; but pointed out that income disparities between blacks & whites means that police work that focuses more on poor urban neighborhoods has disproportionate racial effects.
https://www.meetup.com/Philly-Skeptics/events/249125196/

NOTE: This meetup will be immediately preceded by a Skeptics discussion from 1-3pm that will look at the debate over whether slavery made America rich, which is part of the justification for reparations:
https://www.meetup.com/Philly-Skeptics/events/djzwsrybckbjc/

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DIRECTIONS ON HOW TO PREPARE FOR OUR DISCUSSION:

The videos & articles you see linked below are intended to give you a basic overview of some of the major debates over historic racial injustice in America & reparations as a possible solution. As usual, I certainly don't expect you to read all the articles & watch all the videos prior to attending our discussion. The easiest way to prepare for our discussion is to just watch the numbered videos linked under each section - the videos come to about about 47 minutes total. The articles marked with asterisks are just there to supply additional details. You can browse and look at whichever ones you want, but don't worry - we'll cover the stuff you missed in our discussion.

In terms of the discussion format, my general idea is that we'll address the topics in the order presented here. I've listed some questions under each section heading to outline the key arguments - we'll do our best to answer most of them. I figure we'll spend about 30 minutes on each section.

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I. THE DEBATE OVER THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY & JIM CROW AND THEIR EFFECTS ON THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP:

  • IS THE RACIAL INCOME GAP MORE OF LESS IMPORTANT THAN THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP IN MEASURING RACIAL INEQUALITY?

  • HOW IMPORTANT IS RACIAL INCOME MOBILITY AS A MEASURE OF (IN)EQUALITY OF OPPORTUNITY? WHY DO WE SEE A MUCH BIGGER GAP IN INCOME MOBILITY BETWEEN BLACK & WHITE MEN TODAY THAN BETWEEN BLACK & WHITE WOMEN?

  • WAS THE LACK OF WAGES UNDER SLAVERY A MAJOR CAUSE OF TODAY'S RACIAL WEALTH GAP, OR WAS THE CAPITAL ACCUMULATION & INHERITANCE OF MOST WHITE WORKING AMERICANS NEGLIGIBLE PRIOR TO 1865?

  • IF EX-SLAVES HAD RECEIVED "40 ACRES & A MULE" AS GEN. SHERMAN HAD PROPOSED, WOULD THIS HAVE LED TO SIGNIFICANTLY HIGHER WEALTH FOR AFRICAN-AMERICANS BY THE 20TH CENTURY, OR WOULD THIS HAVE LOCKED THEM INTO SUBSISTENCE AGRICULTURE WHEN MOVING TO NORTHERN CITIES & WORKING IN FACTORIES WAS THE MORE PROFITABLE ROUTE?

  • HOW MUCH OF TODAY'S WEALTH GAP IS DUE TO JIM CROW-ERA DISCRIMINATION IN EDUCATION, EMPLOYMENT & HOUSING? WAS THE REDLINING ENDORSED BY THE FEDERAL HOUSING ADMINISTRATION THAT MADE HOME OWNERSHIP IMPOSSIBLE FOR MOST AFRICAN-AMERICANS THE KEY CULPRIT?

  • TO WHAT EXTENT IS THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP DUE TO POST-JIM CROW SOCIAL PROBLEMS LIKE FAMILY BREAKDOWN, HIGHER UNEMPLOYMENT & LOWER COLLEGE ATTENDANCE RATES, OR NEW FORMS OF EXPLOITATION LIKE PAYDAY LOANS & ADJUSTABLE RATE MORTGAGES?

1a) Planet Something, "Donald Glover's Atlanta and Why the Poor Are Poor" (video - 7:04 min.)
https://youtu.be/qYT2nbPTWiU

1b) Michele Carroll & Coleman Hughes, "Culture vs Racism" (video - 8:22 min.)
https://youtu.be/tIE85vAMbJg

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II. THE DEBATES OVER TRANSGENERATIONAL RACIAL TRAUMA & THE EFFECTS OF SLAVERY & JIM CROW ON AFRICAN-AMERICAN FAMILIES:

  • IS IT SCIENTIFICALLY PLAUSIBLE THAT EPIGENETIC EFFECTS COULD CAUSE AFRICAN-AMERICANS TO SUFFER FROM "POST-TRAUMATIC SLAVE SYNDROME", AS PSYCHOLOGIST JOY DeGRUY CLAIMS? COULD THIS EVEN EXTEND TO WATER PHOBIAS DUE TO "MIDDLE PASSAGE SYNDROME" AS AUTHOR JACQUELINE WOODSON SPECULATED?

  • DO AFRICAN-AMERICAN STUDENTS OFTEN SUFFER "SECONDARY PTSD" FROM LEARNING ABOUT THE HARDSHIPS THEIR ANCESTORS ENDURED UNDER SLAVERY & JIM CROW? OR ARE CONTEMPORARY SOCIAL & ECONOMIC PROBLEMS IN POOR BLACK COMMUNITIES THE PRIMARY CAUSE OF DEPRESSION & ANXIETY ISSUES?

  • ARE THERE ANY HEALTH PROBLEMS AMONG AFRICAN-AMERICANS THAT CAN BE DIRECTLY TRACED BACK TO SLAVERY, SUCH AS HYPERTENSION RELATED TO SELECTION EFFECTS FROM SURVIVING THE MIDDLE PASSAGE?

  • HAS A DECREASE IN SOCIETAL RACISM MADE BLACKS HAPPIER ON AVERAGE? WHY ARE BLACK YOUTH REPORTING MORE DEPRESSION & ANXIETY?

  • DOES FATHERLESSNESS & MULTI-GENERATIONAL POVERTY IN THE BLACK COMMUNITY STEM FROM THE LEGACY OF SLAVERY WHERE FAMILIES WERE TORN APART? OR DO RECORDS SHOW THAT BLACK FAMILIES HAD MOSTLY RECOVERED BY THE 1890s EVEN AS THEY STRUGGLED WITH RACISM & POVERTY, AS TERA HUNTER ARGUES?

  • WHY HAS THE BLACK MARRIAGE RATE DECLINED IN THE POST-JIM CROW ERA? IS IT RELATED TO UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES OF WELFARE PROGRAMS, AS THOMAS SOWELL CLAIMS? OR IS IT DUE TO THE ECONOMIC EFFECTS OF DEINDUSTRIALIZATION & MASS INCARCERATION REDUCING THE SUPPLY OF ELIGIBLE BLACK BACHELORS?

2a) Joy DeGruy, "Post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. How Is It Different From PTSD?" (video - 5:48 min.)
https://youtu.be.com/Rorgjdvphek

2b) Tera W. Hunter, “What Was African American Marriage?” (video - 43:36 min, start at 33:20 & listen to 41:30)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EW9b55WnNA&t=33m20s

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III. THE ETHICAL DEBATES OVER INDIVIDUAL VS COLLECTIVE GUILT & OVER "WHITE PRIVILEGE" STEMMING FROM BLACK OPPRESSION DURING SLAVERY & JIM CROW:

  • SHOULD THE MANIFEST INJUSTICE OF SLAVERY & JIM CROW CREATE AN EXCEPTION TO OUR GENERAL PROHIBITION ON "EX POST FACTO" LAWS, I.E. SHOULD THERE BE CIVIL LIABILITY EVEN FOR ACTS THAT WERE LEGAL AT THE TIME?

  • SHOULD WEALTH TRANSFERS ORIGINATING IN SLAVERY & JIM CROW BE TREATED AS "RECEIVING STOLEN PROPERTY"? WOULD THIS BE TOO LIMITED BECAUSE WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO TRACE WHERE EXACTLY MOST OF THIS WEALTH HAS GONE?

  • SHOULD WE ASSIGN "COLLECTIVE GUILT" IN THE CASE OF LARGE-SCALE HISTORIC INJUSTICES? IF SO, SHOULD WE ONLY ASSIGN LIABILITY TO THE DESCENDANTS OF SLAVE TRADERS, OWNERS & OVERSEERS? WOULD DESCENDANTS OF ABOLITIONISTS & UNION SOLDIERS BE EXEMPT? HOW ABOUT MIXED-RACE PEOPLE?

  • ARE ALL WHITE PEOPLE "PRIVILEGED" DUE TO THE HISTORIC OPPRESSION OF BLACK PEOPLE? IF SO, ARE ALL WHITES LIABLE, OR IS THIS ASSUMING A ZERO-SUM WORLD WHERE ONE PERSON'S LOSS IS ALWAYS ANOTHER'S GAIN?

  • DID MOST WHITE PEOPLE ECONOMICALLY BENEFIT FROM THE OPPRESSION OF BLACKS DURING SLAVERY, OR DID IT ACTUALLY HURT POOR WHITES BY DRIVING DOWN THEIR WAGES? DID EXCLUDING BLACKS FROM UNIONS IN THE JIM CROW ERA & FORCING THEM TO WORK FOR LOWER WAGES HAVE A SIMILAR EFFECT?

  • DID HOUSING DISCRIMINATION AGAINST BLACKS DURING THE JIM CROW-ERA BENEFIT WHITES BY LIMITING DEMAND & KEEPING HOUSING PRICES LOWER? OR DID THIS ONLY BENEFIT WHITE HOME BUYERS & ACTUALLY HURT WHITE HOME OWNERS BY LIMITING WHO THEY COULD SELL TO?

  • ARE AMERICANS TODAY RESPONSIBLE FOR CORRECTING RACIAL DISPARITIES EVEN IN CASES WHERE THEY DIDN'T CAUSE THEM OR INDIRECTLY BENEFIT FROM THEM? IF SO, SHOULD RESPONSIBILITY BE APPORTIONED BASED ON RACE OR ECONOMIC STATUS?

3a) Tim Wise, "Guilt or Responsibility?" (video - 2:39 min.)
https://youtu.be/XhOh_EGe41Y

3b) Coleman Hughes, "Testifying Against Slave Reparations" (video - 6:05 min.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QAaiqFUUPBo&t=9s

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IV. THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF REPARATION PROGRAMS, POVERTY-BASED VS RACE-BASED, THEN & NOW:

  • WERE THE GREAT SOCIETY PROGRAMS A FORM OF REPARATIONS? WERE THEY SUCCESSFUL IN REDUCING BLACK POVERTY RATES, OR DID THEY HAVE TRAP MANY BLACKS IN POVERTY BY DISCOURAGING MARRIAGE?

  • WAS/IS AFFIRMATIVE ACTION IN COLLEGE ADMISSIONS AND GOV'T HIRING & CONTRACTING A FORM OF REPARATIONS? HOW SUCCESSFUL HAS IT BEEN?

  • WOULD THE 10-20-30 PLAN THAT EARMARKS SPENDING FOR AREAS WITH PERSISTENT POVERTY BE A GOOD WAY TO HELP POOR PEOPLE OF ALL RACES, AVOIDING A POTENTIAL BACKLASH FROM POOR WHITES?

  • ARE "OPPORTUNITY ZONES" A GOOD WAY TO ENCOURAGE INVESTMENT IN BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS, OR DO THEY JUST FUEL GENTRIFICATION?

  • ARE "BABY BONDS" A GOOD WAY TO HELP NARROW THE RACIAL WEALTH GAP, EVEN IF THEY'RE GIVEN TO ALL POOR PEOPLE REGARDLESS OF RACE?

  • ARE CASH REPARATIONS MORE JUST & LESS PATERNALISTIC? DOES THE FACT THAT MOST LOTTERY WINNERS GO BANKRUPT WITHIN A DECADE SUGGEST SUDDEN INFUSIONS OF CASH MIGHT BACKFIRE?

  • WOULD A "NEGATIVE INCOME TAX" THAT HELPED ALL POOR AMERICANS BE A GOOD PRAGMATIC ALTERNATIVE TO CASH REPARATIONS?

4a) PBS, "What 2020 Democrats think about reparations" (video - 7:57 min, start at 2:24)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szsuFe5It5s&t=2m24s

4b) Darrick Hamilton, "Federal Baby Bonds and Economic Equality" (video - 3:41 min.)
https://youtu.be/HzrjVlhQZbU

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