What we’re about
P&G is more than just a group of people. It is a community. A community of philosophers, thinkers, book readers, paper readers, and folks that ask the foundational questions. What is the meaning of life? How do we know what we know? What makes us human? These are some of the questions that P&G members explore together through lively discussions and debates. But P&G is not only about intellectual pursuits. It is also a community of thoughtful people coming together to hike, and hangout. Whether it's enjoying the beauty of nature, sharing a meal, or playing games, P&G members bond over their common interests and values. P&G is a community where you can find friends who challenge you to grow and support you along the way.
Upcoming events
279
•OnlineAgnosticism: An Open Consideration of All Versions.
OnlineSEA OF FAITH IN AUSTRALIA (SoFiA) - Melbourne.
Some of us are participating in SoFiA's online event.
"Agnosticism: An Open Consideration of All Versions."
Dr. Neville Buch will present the topic and lead the discussion.
INTRO: "The concept of agnosticism, far exceeding a mere simplistic doubt regarding the existence of a deity, can be broadly understood as a suspension of judgment rooted in the recognition of epistemic uncertainty or the inherent limits of human knowledge regarding a proposition or domain.
Philosophically, agnosticism is often presented as a form of skepticism, characterized by the commitment to circumspection and intellectual honesty, demanding that one withhold belief when the available evidence is deemed insufficient.
In its highest philosophical form, it recognizes that knowledge about ultimate reality or theological claims is unknowable or incomprehensible to finite human reason, a position Kant himself adopted regarding metaphysical matters.
This intellectual posture, however, is not necessarily passive; it can be an active belief that knowledge of "x" is not known and not knowable, leading to an ethical stance where one "ought to be agnostic" and act in accordance with that principle, or conversely, it can be dismissed as a "foolish stance" or "wilful ignorance" when used as a dishonest rhetorical device or against clearly established knowledge.
This perspective holds that because agnosticism about the existence of God is a non-commitment on ontology, it becomes an uninteresting and indifferent philosophical stance compared to focusing on what meaning or universal value can be derived from the realm of signs and symbols."
Wikipedia on Agnosticism
The ZOOM LINK will appear on this page for those who RSVP.
Meeting ID: 828 1591 9455 - - Passcode: 786285
~ SoFiA promotes the open exploration of religion, spirituality and the search for meaning. They welcome ALL viewpoints, including Atheism.~
SOFiA Website.
Facebook: 'Sofiatalk' - Please join their ongoing discussions.8 attendees
•OnlineWhat Can Count as Intelligence at All?
OnlinePLEASE RSVP VIA THE ORLANDO STOICS LINK BELOW
https://www.meetup.com/orlando-stoics/
Every Sunday, a new lecture. Our meeting begins at 9:00 AM with informal conversation, followed by a focused dialogue at 9:15 AM, and an open Q&A discussion afterward.
This week, we continue to explore what intelligence is and where it resides. If intelligence does not live inside the mind, then what can count as intelligence at all? Must intelligence belong only to humans, or even to minds? Or can it exist at the level of objects, systems, and structures in the world?
We begin with Graham Harman, who argues that objects exist independently of how we think about them. For Harman, reality is not exhausted by human perception, interpretation, or use. Objects have their own existence and their own powers, whether or not anyone is aware of them. This challenges the idea that intelligence or meaning must depend on a human viewpoint. It opens the possibility that intelligence can be understood at the level of objects themselves, not just inside conscious minds.
We then turn to John Doyle, who approaches intelligence from an engineering perspective. Doyle argues that complex systems should be understood as informational structures shaped by constraints, tradeoffs, and control mechanisms. Intelligence, on this view, is not a mysterious inner property. It is something that emerges when systems reliably manage complexity, uncertainty, and risk. An intelligent system is one that maintains order and function under pressure. Intelligence becomes something that can be built, tested, and engineered.
Finally, we look at Hilary Putnam, who rejected the idea that understanding depends on the material substance of the mind. Putnam argued that what matters is function, not physical makeup. If a system performs the right kinds of operations, then it can count as understanding, regardless of whether it is made of neurons, silicon, or something else. Intelligence, on this view, is not tied to biology. It is tied to what a system does.
Together, these thinkers shift our focus away from inner mental meanings and toward object level reality. Intelligence becomes something real, structured, and functional. It exists in systems, architectures, and patterns of organization. It can be informational rather than psychological. And it can be engineered rather than merely observed.
This shift has major consequences for how we think about artificial intelligence. If intelligence is object level, informational, and functional, then the key questions change. What structures support intelligent behavior? What constraints shape reliable performance? And what does it mean to build systems that act intelligently in the world?
Join Plato’s Cave and the Orlando Stoics for a discussion on objects, systems, intelligence, and the philosophical foundations that connect ontology with engineering reality.
READING MATERIALS
Graham Harman
Graham Harman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Harman
Object Oriented Ontology (overview): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-oriented_ontology
Tool Being: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tool-Being
John Doyle
John C. Doyle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Doyle
Robust Control and Complexity: https://www.cds.caltech.edu/~doyle/wiki/index.php/Main_Page
Complexity and Robustness (overview): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robust_control
Hilary Putnam
Hilary Putnam: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilary_Putnam
Functionalism (philosophy of mind): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functionalism_(philosophy_of_mind)
The Meaning of “Meaning”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Meaning_of_%22Meaning%22
TIMEZONES
For our members in other states:
6:00 AM — Pacific Time USA
7:00 AM — Mountain Time USA
8:00 AM — Central Time USA
9:00 AM — Eastern Time USA
For members in other countries, please convert time using:
https://www.worldtimebuddy.com
The meeting begins at 9:00 AM Eastern, with dialogue starting 9:15 AM sharp.3 attendees
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