San Antonio Vegetable Eaters (SAVE)

A series of online meetups to discuss animal rights & animal welfare that may be of interest! RSVP on this link to get the zoom link -> https://www.meetup.com/the-toronto-philosophy-meetup/events/313975127/

We are done with our Series of Debates/Discussions relating to whether a Supreme Mind exists. We are now going to shift topics to Morality. We will start with Brother Mike's idea for a 3 event series:

3-26-26 Discussion: What rights should animals have? We developed a foundational way to think about this and that was that animals should not be subject to unnecessary suffering. What is necessary? A choice on what to eat involves tradeoffs. Under factory farming animals are subject to terrible conditions and everyone agreed that within these parameters animals were subject to immense and unnecessary suffering that could and should in large part be mitigated. From there views diverged with some believing that a vegan diet was necessitated because no animal should be born raised and killed just so that someone could eat meat. Others believed that the more important calculus to consider was the overall quality of life of the animals being raised. We talked about this in the context of the Veil of Ignorance, which begged the question what world would you create if you didn't know where in it you would land (i.e. would you be a cow, human etc.). So that if you were raised as a farm animal would you be okay with where you landed? Or would you rather not exist? Once we have reached that threshold (according to some) then the unnecessary suffering has ceased (because there is no net suffering as you would choose to exist rather than not). Personally, I think this is the case with bison, because they live a relatively long life under domestication (they aren't killed as babies) and they are allowed to roam freely, so can get exercise unlike a cow stuck in a little cage all day. So under a veil of ignorance I may be willing to accept coming to the world as a domesticated bison as opposed to not existing at all (But I'm not saying I want to trade).

2: What should be the limits of how humans may consume or utilize animals?

3: Can eating meat be morally justified?
Overall, In this series we discuss great questions of philosophy. You could call what we are doing debate style or open forum, but participants are free to give their ideas and challenge others while discussing the topic of the week. Each week I will choose from one of hundreds of topics such as: are humans innately good or evil, what makes us human, did you exist before you were born, and does god (a supreme mind) exist. I think a Socratic method/critical analysis of questions where each assumption held on a particular topic is questioned to dig deeper is a good way to make progress.

The Zoom link will be posted shortly before the event. I have installed a timer in Zoom, so a timer will start automatically when you start speaking, I am setting a 3 minute time limit on each speaker. Once a speaker talks anyone can follow up with a counter point, question, or continuing thought along the same line of thought (leave such comments to 1 minute). But do not begin a new train of thought unless you raise your hand. I will set a 5 minute timer for all follow up to an original speaker.