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The Saint Paul Socrates Cafe

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Re: [The-Saint-Paul-Socrates-Cafe] Violence: The Solution

From: Word Warrior M.
Sent on: Tuesday, May 19, 2015, 12:17 AM
Doug, you seem to present a position that I'd call a false dichotomy: someone either supports everything the nation of Israel does or they hate all Jewish people; you're either "pro-Israel" or support jihadists and want Israel destroyed. Such a position is logically, patently untenable. Example below:  http://www.fallaciouslogic.net/0/

I also feel the need to point out that "collective punishment" (or for that matter, collective condemnation) of certain categorized groups of individual people is precisely what led to the Holocaust. I believe responsible, civilized and educated adults refrain from such characterizations, realizing they're inevitably flawed. Right now, especially since 9/11, the American group most frequently vilified is the Muslim community. 

On the other hand, the vast majority of citizens here wholly support Israel without question, I'd argue to the point of our government participating in or advocating war crimes. I'm not alone in that assessment. Noam Chomsky, often considered the greatest intellectual of our time (and Jewish himself) has named some of Israel's actions "war crimes." The real power differential of Israel and Palestine also evokes the image of Samson and Goliath; one is the most powerful military in the ME and the other extremely impoverished, under occupation, subjugated and almost starved, though few people in the US are informed of that situation.

My own ethics on such matters is well expressed by Chomsky when he evokes the Nuremberg Laws, which we've long since ignored.  http://www.chomsky.info/talks/1990----.htm

Doug sez: " . . . the thought of a large number of people wanting to wipe out another large body of people causes emotional distress . . ." Hopefully so, and distress for not only one group of people? (I've heard Americans call for bombing the entire ME out of existence, and I can't understand where those emotions come from.) How are we here using the term "Islamist"? All Muslims? I personally know some Muslims and they are (no surprise) regular, ordinary people wanting the same things everyone else does. Whenever I see sweeping condemnation of all Muslims (not infrequent), I know the lie of of it and of course feel the need to speak my own experience and knowledge. However, I do not express my views with any personal animus whatsoever here, and I guess am taken aback by some of the animosity displayed.

But I wish all well of course and hope to make it to the group tomorrow night.

Gail



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