Philosophy by the river

(Scroll down for topic intro)

THE VENUE: Caffè Nero

It's not quite spring yet so we will continue to meet indoors for the next few weeks.

When we meet indoors, we run the same event in two locations: Caffè Nero and Starbucks, so as to provide capacity for as many people who would like to attend, without overwhelming any one venue. Thus, there will be two events published, and you can choose which one to attend. Please don't sign up for both. This event is for the Nero location.

We meet upstairs at Caffè Nero. An organiser will be present from 10.45. We are not charged for use of the space so it would be good if everyone bought at least one drink.

An attendee limit has been set so as not to overwhelm the venue.

Etiquette
Our discussions are friendly and open. We are a discussion group, not a for-and-against debating society. But it helps if we try to stay on topic. And we should not talk over others, interrupt them, or try to dominate the conversation.

There is often a waiting list for places, so please cancel your attendance as soon as possible if you subsequently find you can't come.

WhatsApp groups
We have two WhatsApp groups. One is to notify events, including extra events such as meeting for a meal or a drink during the week which we don't normally put on the Meetup site. The other is for open discussion of whatever topics occur to people. If you would like to join either or both groups, please send a note of the phone number you would like to use to Richard Baron on: website.audible238@passmail.net. (This is an alias that can be discarded if it attracts spam, hence the odd words.)

THE TOPIC: Is folly essential to the good life?

Thank you to Richard for preparing this week's topic.

Erasmus published In Praise of Folly in 1511. It is a speech by the goddess Folly, setting out the great benefits she confers on human life - much greater than wisdom. Erasmus was joking to some extent, but perhaps not entirely. So let us take Folly at her word, and see whether we agree.

Some benefits of folly

Folly lets us come into existence, because it is necessary for people to accept the great trouble of pair-bonding and having children.

Folly allows joy. The most joyous times are childhood and the second childhood of old age, both full of folly.

Parties, jokes and games are only made fun by folly. Wise philosophers are a total bore at parties.

Friendships and relationships depend on the folly of overlooking other people's faults rather than paying attention to how people really are.

Self-satisfaction and self-admiration are foolish, involving a false appraisal of oneself, but are essential to getting on with others. And they are developed by foolishly ignoring how others appraise you and accepting your own judgement of yourself.

Folly allows us to gain pleasure from having had noble ancestors, or from holding honours or fancy titles.

Folly allows us to ignore disturbing facts about the world and believe whatever we would like to be true. This also saves us the trouble of proper research.

The foolish gain experience by daring to do new things, while the wise do not learn from experience because they hold back from risk.

Folly allows the pursuit of madcap projects, such as alchemy. The pursuit will keep people happy. And it might even yield some useful result.

Folly allows people to live well on borrowed money - at least for a while.

Folly allows someone who is at the top of an organisation (such as a country or a church), and who is therefore his or her own boss, to avoid the serious responsibilities of the position and enjoy fun and luxury.

Questions

Are the benefits of folly real?

Do the benefits depend on the subject not seeing himself or herself as foolish?

Could we enjoy the benefits while keeping folly under the supervision of wisdom, which would allow us to be foolish to a certain extent on certain occasions? Or would awareness of the supervision restrain us too much to enjoy the benefits of folly to the full?

Where do we see folly today? And do we care?

Please be wise enough to come along on Sunday.

(Scroll down for topic intro)

THE VENUE: Starbucks

It's not quite spring yet so we will continue to meet indoors for the next few weeks.

When we meet indoors, we run the same event in two locations: Caffè Nero and Starbucks, so as to provide capacity for as many people who would like to attend, without overwhelming any one venue. Thus, there will be two events published, and you can choose which one to attend. Please don't sign up for both. This event is for the Starbucks location.

We meet upstairs at Starbucks. An organiser will be present from 10.45. We are not charged for use of the space so it would be good if everyone bought at least one drink.

An attendee limit has been set so as not to overwhelm the venue.

Etiquette
Our discussions are friendly and open. We are a discussion group, not a for-and-against debating society. But it helps if we try to stay on topic. And we should not talk over others, interrupt them, or try to dominate the conversation.

There is often a waiting list for places, so please cancel your attendance as soon as possible if you subsequently find you can't come.

WhatsApp groups
We have two WhatsApp groups. One is to notify events, including extra events such as meeting for a meal or a drink during the week which we don't normally put on the Meetup site. The other is for open discussion of whatever topics occur to people. If you would like to join either or both groups, please send a note of the phone number you would like to use to Richard Baron on: website.audible238@passmail.net. (This is an alias that can be discarded if it attracts spam, hence the odd words.)

THE TOPIC: Is folly essential to the good life?

Thank you to Richard for preparing this week's topic.

Erasmus published In Praise of Folly in 1511. It is a speech by the goddess Folly, setting out the great benefits she confers on human life - much greater than wisdom. Erasmus was joking to some extent, but perhaps not entirely. So let us take Folly at her word, and see whether we agree.

Some benefits of folly

Folly lets us come into existence, because it is necessary for people to accept the great trouble of pair-bonding and having children.

Folly allows joy. The most joyous times are childhood and the second childhood of old age, both full of folly.

Parties, jokes and games are only made fun by folly. Wise philosophers are a total bore at parties.

Friendships and relationships depend on the folly of overlooking other people's faults rather than paying attention to how people really are.

Self-satisfaction and self-admiration are foolish, involving a false appraisal of oneself, but are essential to getting on with others. And they are developed by foolishly ignoring how others appraise you and accepting your own judgement of yourself.

Folly allows us to gain pleasure from having had noble ancestors, or from holding honours or fancy titles.

Folly allows us to ignore disturbing facts about the world and believe whatever we would like to be true. This also saves us the trouble of proper research.

The foolish gain experience by daring to do new things, while the wise do not learn from experience because they hold back from risk.

Folly allows the pursuit of madcap projects, such as alchemy. The pursuit will keep people happy. And it might even yield some useful result.

Folly allows people to live well on borrowed money - at least for a while.

Folly allows someone who is at the top of an organisation (such as a country or a church), and who is therefore his or her own boss, to avoid the serious responsibilities of the position and enjoy fun and luxury.

Questions

Are the benefits of folly real?

Do the benefits depend on the subject not seeing himself or herself as foolish?

Could we enjoy the benefits while keeping folly under the supervision of wisdom, which would allow us to be foolish to a certain extent on certain occasions? Or would awareness of the supervision restrain us too much to enjoy the benefits of folly to the full?

Where do we see folly today? And do we care?

Please be wise enough to come along on Sunday.