THE VENUE: Caffè Nero, Fitzroy St
We meet upstairs at Caffè Nero in Fitzroy St, near to the Grafton Centre and opposite the old Wilko store. An organiser will be present from 10.45.
We are not charged for use of the space so it would be good if everyone bought at least one drink.
An attendee limit has been set so as not to overwhelm the venue.
Etiquette
Our discussions are friendly and open. We are a discussion group, not a for-and-against debating society. But it helps if we try to stay on topic. And we should not talk over others, interrupt them, or try to dominate the conversation.
WhatsApp groups
We have two WhatsApp groups. One is to notify events, including extra events such as meeting for a meal or a drink during the week which we don't normally put on the Meetup site. The other is for open discussion of whatever topics occur to people. If you would like to join either or both groups, please send a note of the phone number you would like to use to Richard Baron on:
website.audible238@passmail.net (This is an alias that can be discarded if it attracts spam, hence the odd words.)
THE TOPIC: A private jet
Here is a dialogue between Flyer and Grounded. What do we make of the arguments? Who is missing which important points? And is either of them going about ethics in the wrong way?
Flyer: Would you like a trip in my new private jet?
Grounded: What, are you crazy? Do you have no financial sense in your head?
Flyer: Actually, it was a bargain. Only 29 million pounds. Plus a million extra to have the interior fitted out as I like it.
Grounded: 30 million !! Think of how many people you could have fed with that money.
Flyer: That's a bit speculative. But let's see how many people I have in fact fed. The engineers who design these jets would not have jobs if there were not sufficient demand. (Airliner design is already fully staffed, and jobs in other fields would not use their skills.) Then there are the people who build them. And the people who design and construct interiors. And the pilots who would otherwise be out of work. And the cabin crew. And the people who supply the fuel. And the ones who work at the small airfields that are kept in business by private flying. So maybe it's not so bad.
Grounded: But that's not what I meant! Those aren't the people who need feeding! What about poor pensioners?
Flyer: Actually, I think the people I mentioned do like to be fed. But let's think about pensioners anyway. The company that made the aircraft is pretty profitable. And it is publicly quoted. Anyone can buy shares and collect dividends on them. Guess what? Pension funds for ordinary people own a substantial chunk. So the dividends out of the profits boost ordinary people's pensions. And of course there is the corporation tax on the profits, which goes to support the social security system.
Grounded: You seem to be very centred on our own rich country. What about people in developing countries?
Flyer: Well, a lot of the materials to build a jet come from developing countries. So there is a transfer of wealth to people there. Wages and taxes get paid. And the company which built my new jet checks the supply chain to ensure there is no exploitation of people and that environmental damage is limited and remedied. Also, don't forget the resale value of the jet, when I don't need one any more. I expect to give a large chunk of that to charity.
By the way, how is your new apartment?
Grounded: It's great, thanks. As you know, I am a one-home person. Never liked the idea of multiple homes, even though I could afford them. I also don't go for apartments bigger than I need. Instead I choose quality in a smart neighbourhood. So I treated myself a bit and spent four million pounds, plus another half a million on fitting it out.
Flyer: That's a heck of a lot. How many people could you have fed with that?
Grounded: Now, hang on a minute. A jet is a frivolous luxury. Everyone needs a home. And the apartment already existed. So it made sense for someone who could afford it to occupy it. Otherwise I would be taking a cheaper home from someone with a lower income.
Flyer: Hmmm ....
