Topic: For & Against Being a Stoic
Details
Recommended viewing for this topic: "Epictetus - How To Be A Stoic"
Youtube @ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wH6dSe_dYgM [15 minutes]
Talking points:
1. Where would you place yourself on a 5 point scale between a) Just passively enduring life's trials .. and b) Raging against the machine ... ? Justify.
2. People tend to change over their lifetime. At what point do you think most folk give up on the idea that they can change the world, and accept making the best of what they think they can actually control?
3. Stoicism is pretty much a philosophy which puts responsibility on the individual rather than a philosophy which puts the group (family, workplace, country, culture etc) in control. Can you think of cultures where this might work best, and cultures where it might be somewhat opposed? What is your own position on this?
4. The culture of the Roman Empire was mostly one where gods had strong "human" personalities and philosophies like stoicism or epicurianism etc were similarly based on personality types. People tended to choose a favourite god or personality to boost their own preferences. This is in contrast to monotheistic religions (e.g. Christianity, Islam) or mass ideologies like communism or Confucianism which try to force individuals into a common mould. Which approach do you think works best. What is your own inclination?
5. One tenet of stoicism is to "remind yourself of the impermanence of things". In the long run of course, all things are impermanent. So should we just live for the day? Is it worth planning for a personal future (which might not happen), or even struggling for the future of your children, or a country? How much should we care?
6. Stoicism advises you to be reflective - pause before a comment or a decision, think over the events of your day etc. How well do you follow this advice? Is it just a waste of time sometimes? Is being reflective just a habit of certain personality types, or can it be learned?
7. Stoicism advises you to listen more than to talk, and only speak when you have something of value to say. This sounds good. Personally I could happily make a New Year resolution along those lines. Day to day however I often find it hard advice to follow. What is an argument in favour of just chattering for the sake of chattering sometimes?
8. Stoicism advises you to speak without judging others, and even not to talk about other people. This sounds good and is probably sound advice in a corporate workplace. Then I (Thor) remember my father who would roll home drunk with amazing stories and opinions about everyone he had met. He made life memorable, and left me with a taste for seeing the world as a crazy novel full of interesting characters. So what is your choice between virtuous silence and outrageous comment, or something in between?
9. Stoicism advises you to endure misfortune calmly, and accept what must be accepted. This is certainly good for personal mental health. It makes sense when misfortune is just personal and one-off. Does mere calm endurance make sense for those who live in countries which are falling apart and run by criminals and thieves. There are many such places. Who should then step beyond what seems like unbreakable oppression? Would you?
10. There is virtue (however you want to define it) and the mere appearance of virtue (e.g. greenwashing etc). There is also an unreasonable world out there, so that the road to hell is often paved with good intentions, while even evil decisions can sometimes lead to good outcomes. How can we navigate this tricky landscape? When should be put aside what seems like virtue for a pragmatic choice instead?
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A related meetup, "Adelaide Shallow Thinkers" is run in a CBD pub every second Wednesday evening : https://www.meetup.com/adelaide-shallow-thinkers/ . The Adelaide Shallow Thinkers topics are the same as those in Adelaide Active Thinkers For & Against. However the Shallow Thinkers meetup aims more for genial conversation with no preparation.
The Active Thinkers topics are run as Zoom events. Participants are encouraged to look at the 10 talking points and extra reading links in the comments section before the meetup. This adds to the depth of discussion.
Thor is the organizer of both meetups. His email is thormay@yahoo.com