RE: [alternativeenergy-35] Re: Arizona quits Western climate endeavor
| From: | user 9. |
| Sent on: | Saturday, February 13, 2010, 9:38 PM |
Actually no country walked out of Cap and Trade after Copenhagen. As a matter of fact, both India and Brazil for the first time announced their own Cap and Trade Schemes that are targetted at specific sectors. Other countries such as New Zealand, Australia, Canada, Japan have crystallized plans for Cap and Trade systems that are waiting for US action before moving forward. By conservative estimates Cap and Trade has lowered the cost in EU ETS by about 50%.
I am not sure if you have looked at the McKinsey Curve which currently has a lot of credibility among policy makers. There is around 17 giga tonnes of annual GHG reduction opportunity that can be had at zero cost to the society. That reduces global emissions from 42 giga tonnes annually to 25 giga tonnes annually. One sure fire way to capitalize on that opportunity is if the private sector gets down to tapping into the GHG reduction opportunity starting with highest ROI to the lowest. What that will take is for the government to set the guardrails and then step away. A Cap is that guardrail. Trading is the other piece. Agreed we have had manipulation in the market but that does not mean those will not be fixed. The idea of turning our backs to the market runs contrary to the basic tenets of a capitalism. Cap and Tax or Cap and Dividend are not market mechanisms. Both will have a significant government roles if executed and will not do much to creat jobs or to involve private sector in solving the GHG problem. It will be the same story as currently where every few years the private sector looks to State or National capital every few years for extensions to green rebates and tax holidays.
Cap and Trade needs a mature market system. Countries such as China that do not have such a system may find it difficult to enact such a policy measure. They will instead go with command and control system. But countries that have the financial maturity to run a cap and trade system should capitalize on this capability. The market presents opportunities that are too big to ignore. Maybe the banks will make a lot of money but so will the rest of the economy.
Interestingly, Cap and Trade was invented by the US. It helped reduce SOx and NOx emissions by 50% in the South Coast Air Quality Management District (Orange County) starting in 1997. It is a pity that in the case of GHG reduction, the rest of the world has benefited the most from a US invention while US continues to dilly dally. I guess nothing surprising there!
I would love to participate in the debate if the group has one. I have talked and worked in Cap and Trade for a while now.
Rupam.
From: [address removed]
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [alternativeenergy-35] Re: Arizona quits Western climate endeavor
Date: Sat, 13 Feb[masked]:15:24 -0500
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I am not sure if you have looked at the McKinsey Curve which currently has a lot of credibility among policy makers. There is around 17 giga tonnes of annual GHG reduction opportunity that can be had at zero cost to the society. That reduces global emissions from 42 giga tonnes annually to 25 giga tonnes annually. One sure fire way to capitalize on that opportunity is if the private sector gets down to tapping into the GHG reduction opportunity starting with highest ROI to the lowest. What that will take is for the government to set the guardrails and then step away. A Cap is that guardrail. Trading is the other piece. Agreed we have had manipulation in the market but that does not mean those will not be fixed. The idea of turning our backs to the market runs contrary to the basic tenets of a capitalism. Cap and Tax or Cap and Dividend are not market mechanisms. Both will have a significant government roles if executed and will not do much to creat jobs or to involve private sector in solving the GHG problem. It will be the same story as currently where every few years the private sector looks to State or National capital every few years for extensions to green rebates and tax holidays.
Cap and Trade needs a mature market system. Countries such as China that do not have such a system may find it difficult to enact such a policy measure. They will instead go with command and control system. But countries that have the financial maturity to run a cap and trade system should capitalize on this capability. The market presents opportunities that are too big to ignore. Maybe the banks will make a lot of money but so will the rest of the economy.
Interestingly, Cap and Trade was invented by the US. It helped reduce SOx and NOx emissions by 50% in the South Coast Air Quality Management District (Orange County) starting in 1997. It is a pity that in the case of GHG reduction, the rest of the world has benefited the most from a US invention while US continues to dilly dally. I guess nothing surprising there!
I would love to participate in the debate if the group has one. I have talked and worked in Cap and Trade for a while now.
Rupam.
From: [address removed]
To: [address removed]
Subject: Re: [alternativeenergy-35] Re: Arizona quits Western climate endeavor
Date: Sat, 13 Feb[masked]:15:24 -0500
Paul, the biggest problem I have with climate change is the solution of cap-and-trade which apparently is not debateable.
If you believe that climate change is happening and certain industries are causing it, why not just tax the bad companies and give tax credits to the good companies? Eventually, coal and oil and gas will become expensive while solar and wind and tide power become cheap. People and industry will vote with their pocketbook and we all move to cleaner energy. I would favor this solution.
Unfortunately, cap-and-trade is a completely different monster. It creates something called a "carbon credit" which good companies get and bad companies need. The good companies would need to bring their "carbon credits" to one specific auction house where it is sold to the highest bidder. Certain people in the know will be making a lot of money from this new arrangement which will essentially control all the energy tranactions in the world. Anyway, this also changes the "carbon credit" into a commodity of which the price could be manipulated by investors (much like oil prices now). Of course, we the consumers would have to pay the price of whatever the "carbon credit" is worth that day and this would certainly disadvantage the poorer countries. That could explain why many poorer countries walked out of the Copenhagen talks.
It's just information...
----- Original Message -----From: Paul SymanskiSent: Saturday, February 13,[masked]:46 AMSubject: [alternativeenergy-35] Re: Arizona quits Western climate endeavorIn response to Vinny's posting of propaganda...Paul SymanskiRate Crimes Energy Blog
Bringing Transparency to the Economics of Solar Energy
http://ratecrimes.blogspot.com
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