What we’re about
"Truth springs from argument amongst friends"
We are a discussion group of friendly and intelligent people who enjoy wrestling with and studying philosophical topics.
Promoting exchange through examination and reasoned argument, expect to justify, critique, be critiqued and engage analytically with the ideas of others.
Interested to attend?
We hope you will join us all for future discussions.
RULES
In order to maximise the respect, enjoyment and engagement of all the members of the group, which request that you:
- read all relevant material for a discussion prior to a meeting;
- if you are not already familiar with the subject of philosophy, please try to familiarise yourself with a general background in philosophy by reading some general introductions;
- be considerate to others during our discussions.
Upcoming events (3)
See all- Pint of Science - Melodies and Memories to Improve Brain FunctionThe Cork, Bath
Some of us are going to the Pint of Science events in Bath. These are not Meetup events, they are part of the Pint of Science festival in Bath.
Tony and I are both going to this:
https://pintofscience.co.uk/event/melodies-and-memories-how-to-improve-brain-functionYou must buy a ticket yourself to the event.
- Pint of Science Festival - What's Really In That VapeThe Cork, Bath
Some of us are going to the Pint of Science events in Bath. These are not Meetup events, they are part of the Pint of Science festival in Bath.
Tony and I are both going to this:
https://pintofscience.co.uk/event/whats-really-in-that-vapeYou must buy a ticket yourself to the event.
- The age of (Over) DiagnosisThe Grapes, Bath
Rates of diagnosis for certain diseases, conditions and syndromes appear to have ballooned in recent times. Conditions not heard of 20-years ago are utilising valuable resources of global health systems and impacting the education of children and workplace efficiency. While some of these illnesses have infected the USA and Europe, they have had little to no impact in other parts of the world; but even amongst modern, democratic countries there can be wide variations in the numbers and the demographics for the same disease. The evolution of some syndromes can be traced openly to social-media influencers, whereas others (such as long Covid) emerge on social-media from grass-roots support groups. Either way, social media seems to play a key role in spreading awareness, if not actually generating!
What is going on? Are we (in the West) becoming more weaker? Do social-media trends undergo enough rigorous scientific scrutiny (or any scrutiny)? Are medical practitioners also swept-up in the wave of pressure, deeming it necessary to go with the herd; especially if politicians and The Media are leading the clarion call from the front.
A new book (2025) called The Age of Diagnosis, by Suzanne O’Sullivan describes this phenomenon from her personal perspective, and as well as challenging the explosion of diagnoses for conditions which have little to no substantiation, she nevertheless believes in the physical and psychological effects with which her patients present, and she wishes to reduce the stigma attached to psychosomatic disorders. From her point of view, it is the job of the medical world to help cure such people. Her other angle though is to wonder what we can do as a society to redress the balance and ensure that limited medical resources go to those in most need.
Suzanne O’Sullivan has been a consultant in neurology since 2004, first working at The Royal London Hospital and now as a consultant in clinical neurophysiology and neurology at The National Hospital for Neurology and Neurosurgery, and for a specialist unit based at the Epilepsy Society. She specialises in the investigation of complex epilepsy and also has an active interest in psychogenic disorders.
Luckily for our discussion you don’t have to read over 300-pages. Instead, you can listen to 5 Episodes, each 14-mins long, which were recently broadcast as BBC radio 4 Book of the Week, and narrated by Suzanne herself. Here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/series/m0028zxt
For each of the 5 Episodes I have (below) indicated some key questions for the discussion. There are also some general themes with which we can either start, or end the conversation – depending on how things evolve on the day. I recommend reading each set of questions and bear them in mind while listening to the associated episode; make your own observations.Questions
Episode 1 – Huntingdon’s Disease
· If you were going to be run down by a bus tomorrow – would you want to know?
· What do you think about the benefits of knowing or not knowing (through a reliable diagnostic test)?Episode 2 – Long Covid
· How has it happened that a #hashtag is allowed to declare a new condition which is accepted by the medical profession as legitimate without any scientific investigation?
· Should patients be allowed to self-diagnose?
· If patients are able to self-diagnose and identify with other sufferers, is it not better that they can then receive support from a peer group?
· What do the demographics of presenting patients tell us about Long Covid? (and other similar conditions?) Did Lockdown conditions contribute?
· If the best predictor of Long Covid is not the severity of covid symptoms, and not even a positive test, but loneliness and negative life-events in the preceding year, does that reduce the need for medical care, even if the label is incorrect?Episode 3 – Autism
· As there is no “blood test” for autism – diagnoses rely on observations (or self-reports) of “abnormal” behaviour in comparison against a societal agreement of what “normal” behaviour should look like. From the patient’s point of view a positive diagnosis “explains” all their problems, and from the doctor’s subjective point of view it provides a handy label for inexplicable and varied symptoms. How reliable should we take this codependent presentation and diagnosis for a neuro-developmental condition?
· We talk of grade inflation in GCSE Exam results; is the increase in diagnoses for autism something similar i.e. a lowering of the bar?
· What is the obsession of Hollywood stars and world-class athletes etc. with self-declaring their own diagnoses for ADHD and Autism, long after their careers have reached stellar heights? Why are people so keen to label others (even the deceased) as “on the spectrum?”
· How has the idea spread that people with autism (especially children) have “super-powers”, and what damage does that do to those who have autism but cannot live independently and need a lifetime of support and medication?Episode 4 – The Cancer Gene
· After a diagnosis of Cancer most of us will feel compelled to act fast, and demand fast action from the NHS. The “Angelina Jolie effect” lead to an upswing of testing for the BRACA 1 & 2 gene variants, and consequently an upsurge in pre-emptive surgery. What are the issues surrounding this, and other, examples of preventing the possible rather than treating an illness?
· What will the effects be on health services and society if and when the number and nature of gene analyses increases in the future?Episode 5 – The Future
· Can anyone actually answer the question - when were you last perfectly 100% well? Oughtn’t we all readjust our views on what “normal health” looks like?
· If there is evidence, as in Darcy’s case, that more tests and more diagnoses just leads to even more tests and diagnoses, wouldn’t it be better to dissuade patients from having tests and hold back on any labelling diagnosis?
· If the act of complaining is often all a patient needs, are we in danger of shutting down opportunities for complaining (through official channels at least)? What effect will this have in the future (or maybe it’s already happening)?General Questions
Nocebo: Should we accept psychosomatic disorders as real – is this a fact? Aren’t we just pandering to the very people who take resources away from those in need? If there is no category in which to place a patient, ought we just ignore their complaint?
Resources: What do you think about the balance of medical resources: the NHS spends about 9% of its budget on treating mental illness – a large proportion of this will be for conditions such as schizophrenia, severe depression, Bipolar, eating disorders, anxiety disorders, PTSD, OCD, Dementia, ADHD, Munchausen Syndrome, Stress, Hoarding, Gambling, Alcohol and Drug abuse, self-harm etc.
· Is 9% adequate; would the nation’s health be better, and therefore health costs lower, if more was given to mental health?
· Take many of the disorders listed above and you may find a wide-range of severities from mild (able to live a normal successful life) to severe (needs constant supervision); should those with mild conditions be allowed to utilise valuable NHS resources?
· How else could a nation address the milder forms of mental health, rather than pathologizing sufferers?AI: If diagnosing is both an Art and a Science, but Art often takes precedence. Will that mean AI diagnoses will often “miss the point” and/or be less effective? If we delegate testing and diagnosis wholly to AI, what problems might arise?
