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Re: [atheists-27] True Threat

From: Mathew G.
Sent on: Saturday, November 28, 2015, 11:50 PM
Here is the first example of someone being convicted of a crime and sentenced to prison for seeking to provide material support to IS in January:  https://www.fbi.gov/denver/press-releases/2014/arvada-woman-pleads-guilty-to-conspiracy-to-provide-material-support-to-a-designated-foreign-terrorist-organization.  This conviction relied on authority given to the State Department by Congressional law and on Justice Department enforcement.  This leaves room for advocating violence in the U.S. that falls short of  "material support".  Nevertheless, I can imagine a scenario where a citizen advocated violence resembling what IS advocates with similar justification, violence occurs that resembles what was so advocated by people who identify with or associate with IS and that IS subsequently applauds, and that person is then charged with providing unlawful material support on the grounds that his advocacy influenced someone who participated.

On Nov 26, 2015, at 10:34 PM, Robert W Ahrens <[address removed]> wrote:

Thanks for researching that, Don. I’d not seen this before.


On Nov 26, 2015, at 2:22 AM, Don Wharton <[address removed]> wrote:

I put some effort into researching the law that might be applied to religious teaching that causes terrorism.  There is a theory of jurisprudence around the concept of a "true threat."  Presumably if a true threat were issued by a religious leader in a religious setting there is a body of precedent that that might be used to evaluate that that threat.  Unfortunately, the precedents do not at this time provide clarity.  They are a "muddled mess" to quote this article reviewing the area:
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/true-threats

Obviously we now have many cases where religious leadership has yielded the joining of ISIS or funding their operations.  Such actual direct actions or substantive support for such actions that would lend much credibility to murderous religious pronouncements being an actual "true threat."  However, it seems that we would need any law in this are to be more clearly drawn so that a judge or jury would not have to make sense of what is now said to be a muddled mess.

Don




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