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Re: [newtech-1] Mac is cracked in 10 seconds

From: Michael M.
Sent on: Sunday, March 29, 2009, 1:55 PM
You should post your final solution and/or blog about it.  There are  
really only a handful of problems that remain for Linux.  I can get  
most of my day job done on Linux.  For many people Ubuntu is just  
fine.  I personally like fedora better but whatever.

-Mike
Sent from my iPhone

On Mar 29, 2009, at 1:07 PM, Kevin <[address removed]> wrote:

> Vmware was fine.  Windows told me my key was fake or whatever.  I had
> to call ms and talk to 3 different people (after the automated thing
> told me it was a pirate key and cut me off.  Its an OEM copy I bought
> a few years ago, specifically to install on a machine I built myself).
>
> However, I just installed virtualbox because netflix froze in vmware,
> and I read somewhere that virtualbox is smoother with that stuff.
>
> Just finished Media player 11 install.
>
> The only thing I dislike about linux is the red-headed-stepchild­
> status by software/hardware companies.  If netflix worked on linux, I
> wouldn't be doing this.  its taken hours of my time today.
>
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 12:59 PM, Michael Mellinger
> <[address removed]> wrote:
>> What was the problem with vmware on Linux?  I run vmware  
>> workstation 6.5 on
>> fc10 and I give my key at install and it just works.  Getting  
>> wmware to run
>> can require a few steps
>>
>> -Mike
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Mar 29, 2009, at 12:08 PM, Kevin <[address removed]> wrote:
>>
>>> I think its a good reason to not buy Windows.  I use linux myself.
>>> I've spent a few hours today wresting with windows on vmware only
>>> because netflix doesn't run on linux.  Otherwise, I'd have zero
>>> windows boxes (actually spent about 45 minutes on the phone with  
>>> tech
>>> support because my license key wouldn't work when I was installing  
>>> on
>>> the vm).
>>>
>>> However, your response is a little dismissive.  You asked for one.
>>> There you go.  So what if its a trojan horse?  That's arguably the
>>> bulk of what's out there for other systems.
>>>
>>> The point is mac is growing up and will now have to worry about  
>>> these
>>> things, yes?  People have been writing viruses for windows for a lot
>>> longer, so you'll find more of them.  You'd agree that most of the
>>> "100,000+" virus instances are variations on a few themes?  You  
>>> would
>>> have to agree with that, of course.
>>>
>>> Also, read this...
>>>
>>> https://en.wikiped...­
>>>
>>> "In terms of scope, there are two major variants: the list of
>>> "in-the-wild" viruses, which list viruses in active circulation, and
>>> lists of all known viruses, which also contain viruses believed  
>>> not be
>>> in active circulation (also called "zoo viruses"). The sizes are
>>> vastly different, in-the-wild lists contain a few hundred viruses  
>>> but
>>> full lists contain tens of thousands."
>>>
>>> So, yeah.  A few hundred to at least 1 mac virus.  The numbers are
>>> quite different.  I would spend more time finding more than one mac
>>> virus, but I have to do other stuff.  I think the point here is  
>>> mac is
>>> far from bulletproof.  However, knowing human nature, people will
>>> dismiss it, then there will be like 3-5 big virus waves, and  
>>> suddenly
>>> all the mac people will be shelling out for AV software.
>>>
>>> Or maybe not.  Cross your fingers.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:45 AM, Michael Mellinger
>>> <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Yep.  Trojan horse attack.  Can always trick anyone on any system.
>>>>  99,999
>>>> more to go?  :-)
>>>>
>>>> Would it make easier for you if we assumed that mac and windows  
>>>> had an
>>>> equal
>>>> number of security holes?  Now statistically speaking are you  
>>>> still just
>>>> as
>>>> secure in windows?  No!  You have got 100x the exploits.
>>>>
>>>> Personally, I don't think it's a big reason to not buy Windows.   
>>>> Get some
>>>> anti-virus, don't run as admin, use a non-ie browser (or ie8?)  
>>>> and make
>>>> regular backups.
>>>>
>>>> -Mike
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 29, 2009, at 11:11 AM, Kevin <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>­ +1?
>>>>>­
>>>>>­ https://www.powerp...­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­ On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:05 AM, Michael Mellinger
>>>>>­ <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­> Ok.  Can you provide some numbers on the quantity of mac and pc
>>>>>­> viruses?
>>>>>­>  There are 100,000+ viruses for Windows.  We are simply trying to
>>>>>­> establish
>>>>>­> whether the statement is true or false.
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­> The one case we all seem to agree on is that most viruses are  
>>>>>­> written
>>>>>­> to
>>>>>­> exploit flaws in Windows.  This is not an opinion, it's a fact.
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­> Now you can argue potential all you want, but that's not going to
>>>>>­> change
>>>>>­> the
>>>>>­> current reality.  Someday I will see a mac virus, but to date  
>>>>>­> not a
>>>>>­> one.
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­> -Mike
>>>>>­> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­> On Mar 29, 2009, at 10:44 AM, Kevin <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>> No offense, but that's a really bad argument.  We're here to  
>>>>>­>> talk
>>>>>­>> about tech, right?  I find it really interesting that the mac  
>>>>>­>> was
>>>>>­>> hacked that easily, so its a good discussion.  The mac is  
>>>>>­>> clearly not
>>>>>­>> that much more secure, right?  Or is it?  State the case.
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>> What does "more secure" mean?  How much more?  Would the  
>>>>>­>> answer be "a
>>>>>­>> lot" or "barely".  Its not really a true/false situation  
>>>>>­>> because its a
>>>>>­>> matter of opinion, and depends on several variables.  The  
>>>>>­>> average mac
>>>>>­>> user is probably a little more web-aware than the average PC  
>>>>>­>> user (I
>>>>>­>> use my parents as the average PC user).  The mac being more  
>>>>>­>> secure in
>>>>>­>> that case has nothing to do with the platform itself.  Also,  
>>>>>­>> the days
>>>>>­>> when the mac was a smaller target are pretty much over going  
>>>>>­>> forward.
>>>>>­>> In no small part because of the advertising of its safety.   
>>>>>­>> Nothing
>>>>>­>> gets people to step up like a challenge (by "people" I mean a- 
>>>>>­>> holes,
>>>>>­>> lonely teens, and criminals).  Also, you know, the extremely  
>>>>>­>> fast
>>>>>­>> increase in consumer market share.
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 10:33 AM, Michael Mellinger
>>>>>­>> <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>> Victor would disagree with you on security through obscurity.
>>>>>­>>> At any rate, we aren't really debating that.
>>>>>­>>> Is this statement true or false? The Mac is more secure than  
>>>>>­>>> the PC.
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>> You aren't being asked to provide any other thoughts or  
>>>>>­>>> opinions.  We
>>>>>­>>> could
>>>>>­>>> argue for quite a while on reasons.  However, victor, for  
>>>>>­>>> example,
>>>>>­>>> usually
>>>>>­>>> ends up something like "the mac is only more secure because  
>>>>>­>>> it is
>>>>>­>>> less
>>>>>­>>> popular.  This translates to "it is more secure." Now since  
>>>>>­>>> we all
>>>>>­>>> agree
>>>>>­>>> on
>>>>>­>>> this point, I see no reason to argue further. Apple can make  
>>>>>­>>> the
>>>>>­>>> claim
>>>>>­>>> that
>>>>>­>>> they are more secure.
>>>>>­>>> -Mike
>>>>>­>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>­>>> On Mar 29, 2009, at 6:36 AM, Andrew <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>> Security through obscurity is never truly secure, it just  
>>>>>­>>> engenders a
>>>>>­>>> false
>>>>>­>>> sense of security.
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 3:22 AM, Michael Mellinger
>>>>>­>>> <[address removed]>
>>>>>­>>> wrote:
>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>> So can we agree that Macs are more secure because they are  
>>>>>­>>>> less of a
>>>>>­>>>> target?
>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>> People don't have to worry about 100,000+ viruses that PCs  
>>>>>­>>>> users
>>>>>­>>>> have
>>>>>­>>>> to worry about.  The bottom line is that you are safer  
>>>>>­>>>> running Mac
>>>>>­>>>> OS.
>>>>>­>>>>  We can debate the reasons but the final answer is the same.
>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>> ">> > I don't watch TV, but I am curious; is Apple still  
>>>>>­>>>> running
>>>>>­>>>> commercials
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> where
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> Macs are portrayed as being more secure than PCs?"
>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>> -Mike
>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 2:51 AM, Victor Shamanovsky
>>>>>­>>>> <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>­>>>>>­
>>>>>­>>>>>­ Nice try, try reading what you post, before you post it.
>>>>>­>>>>>­
>>>>>­>>>>>­ In an interview with Tom���s Hardware, Miller stated 
>>>>>­>>>>>­ , ���I���d say that
>>>>>­>>>>>­ Macs
>>>>>­>>>>>­ are
>>>>>­>>>>>­ less secure for the reasons we���ve discussed here (lack of
>>>>>­>>>>>­ anti-exploitation
>>>>>­>>>>>­ technologies) but are more safe because there simp 
>>>>>­>>>>>­ ly isn���t much
>>>>>­>>>>>­ malware
>>>>>­>>>>>­ out
>>>>>­>>>>>­ there. For now, I���d still recommend Macs for typic 
>>>>>­>>>>>­ al users as the
>>>>>­>>>>>­ odds
>>>>>­>>>>>­ of
>>>>>­>>>>>­ something targeting them are so low that they might go years
>>>>>­>>>>>­ without
>>>>>­>>>>>­ seeing
>>>>>­>>>>>­ any malware, even though if an attacker cared to target  
>>>>>­>>>>>­ them it
>>>>>­>>>>>­ would
>>>>>­>>>>>­ be
>>>>>­>>>>>­ easier for them.���
>>>>>­>>>>>­
>>>>>­>>>>>­ On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Michael Mellinger
>>>>>­>>>>>­ <[address removed]>
>>>>>­>>>>>­ wrote:
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­> Just a quick follow up to Victor's post.  Just in case  
>>>>>­>>>>>­> anyone
>>>>>­>>>>>­> takes
>>>>>­>>>>>­> him a credible source of information.   The guy who won the
>>>>>­>>>>>­> contest
>>>>>­>>>>>­> that Victor was gloating about has stated several times  
>>>>>­>>>>>­> that Macs
>>>>>­>>>>>­> are
>>>>>­>>>>>­> safer than Windows.
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­> https://www.roughl...­
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­> -Mike
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:44 AM, Victor Shamanovsky
>>>>>­>>>>>­> <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> I don't watch TV, but I am curious; is Apple still running
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> commercials
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> where
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> Macs are portrayed as being more secure than PCs?
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:37 AM, Mark Coates
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> <[address removed]>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> wrote:
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> That's what you call 'Accessibility.'
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> Regards,
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> Mark Coates
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> Lead Software Engineer
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> ZepInvest
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> [P]: (580)[masked]
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> [F]: (708)[masked]
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> [E]: [address removed]
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> https://www.zepinv...­
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 10:26 AM, Victor Shamanovsky
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> <[address removed]> wrote:
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> https://www.comput...­
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> "Charlie Miller, the security researcher who hacked a  
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> Mac in
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> two
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> minutes
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> last year at CanSecWest's PWN2OWN contest, improved his  
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> time
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> today
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> by
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> breaking into another Mac in under 10 seconds."
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> lol
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> --
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be  
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> sent to
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> everyone
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> on
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> this mailing list ([address removed])
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> This message was sent by Victor Shamanovsky
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> ([address removed]) from NY Tech Meetup.
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> To learn more about Victor Shamanovsky, visit his/her  
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> member
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> profile
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings,  
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> click
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> here
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> --
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be  
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> sent to
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> everyone
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> on
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> this mailing list ([address removed])
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> This message was sent by Mark Coates ([address removed] 
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> )
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> from
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> NY
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> Tech
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> Meetup.
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> To learn more about Mark Coates, visit his/her member  
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> profile
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings,  
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> click
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> here
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> --
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be  
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> sent to
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> everyone
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> on
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> this mailing list ([address removed])
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>>>>>­>>>>>­>> ([address removed])
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> from NY Tech Meetup.
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>>>>>­>>>>>­>> member
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> profile
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>>>>>­>>>>>­>> click
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> here
>>>>>­>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> Meetup Support: [address removed]
>>>>>­>>>>>­>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­> --
>>>>>­>>>>>­> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent  
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>>>>>­>>>>>­> everyone
>>>>>­>>>>>­> on
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>>>>>­>>>>>­> This message was sent by Michael Mellinger
>>>>>­>>>>>­> ([address removed])
>>>>>­>>>>>­> from
>>>>>­>>>>>­> NY Tech Meetup.
>>>>>­>>>>>­> To learn more about Michael Mellinger, visit his/her member
>>>>>­>>>>>­> profile:
>>>>>­>>>>>­> https://www.meetup...­
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>>>>>­>>>>>­> click
>>>>>­>>>>>­> here:
>>>>>­>>>>>­> https://www.meetup...­
>>>>>­>>>>>­> Meetup Support: [address removed]
>>>>>­>>>>>­> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>>>>>­>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>>>>>­
>>>>>­>>>>>­
>>>>>­>>>>>­
>>>>>­>>>>>­
>>>>>­>>>>>­
>>>>>­>>>>>­ --
>>>>>­>>>>>­ Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to
>>>>>­>>>>>­ everyone
>>>>>­>>>>>­ on
>>>>>­>>>>>­ this mailing list ([address removed])
>>>>>­>>>>>­ This message was sent by Victor Shamanovsky
>>>>>­>>>>>­ ([address removed])
>>>>>­>>>>>­ from NY Tech Meetup.
>>>>>­>>>>>­ To learn more about Victor Shamanovsky, visit his/her member
>>>>>­>>>>>­ profile
>>>>>­>>>>>­ To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings,  
>>>>>­>>>>>­ click here
>>>>>­>>>>>­
>>>>>­>>>>>­ Meetup Support: [address removed]
>>>>>­>>>>>­ 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>> --
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>>>>>­>>>> everyone
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>>>>>­>>>> https://www.meetup...­
>>>>>­>>>> This message was sent by Michael Mellinger ([address removed] 
>>>>>­>>>> )
>>>>>­>>>> from
>>>>>­>>>> NY Tech Meetup.
>>>>>­>>>> To learn more about Michael Mellinger, visit his/her member  
>>>>>­>>>> profile:
>>>>>­>>>> https://www.meetup...­
>>>>>­>>>> To unsubscribe or to update your mailing list settings,  
>>>>>­>>>> click here:
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>>>>>­>>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]
>>>>>­>>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>>>>>­>>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>> --
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>>>>>­>>> everyone
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>>>>>­>>> This message was sent by Andrew ([address removed]) from NY Tech
>>>>>­>>> Meetup.
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>>>>>­>>> here
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]
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>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>> --
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>>>>>­>>> This message was sent by Michael Mellinger ([address removed] 
>>>>>­>>> )
>>>>>­>>> from
>>>>>­>>> NY
>>>>>­>>> Tech Meetup.
>>>>>­>>> To learn more about Michael Mellinger, visit his/her member  
>>>>>­>>> profile
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>>>>>­>>>
>>>>>­>>> Meetup Support: [address removed]
>>>>>­>>> 632 Broadway, New York, NY 10012 USA
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>> --
>>>>>­>> --------------------­
>>>>>­>> Kevin Galligan
>>>>>­>> www.kagii.com
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>> --
>>>>>­>> Please Note: If you hit "REPLY", your message will be sent to  
>>>>>­>> everyone
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>>>>>­>> This message was sent by Kevin ([address removed]) from NY Tech  
>>>>>­>> Meetup.
>>>>>­>> To learn more about Kevin, visit his/her member profile:
>>>>>­>> https://www.meetup...­
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>>>>>­>> here:
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>>>>>­>> Meetup Support: [address removed]
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>>>>>­>>
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­> --
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>>>>>­> This message was sent by Michael Mellinger ([address removed] 
>>>>>­> )
>>>>>­> from
>>>>>­> NY
>>>>>­> Tech Meetup.
>>>>>­> To learn more about Michael Mellinger, visit his/her member  
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>>>>>­> here:
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>>>>>­>
>>>>>­>
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­ --
>>>>>­ --------------------­
>>>>>­ Kevin Galligan
>>>>>­ www.kagii.com
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­
>>>>>­ --
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>>>>>­ everyone
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>>>>>­ To learn more about Kevin, visit his/her member profile:
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>>>>>­ Meetup Support: [address removed]
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>>>>>­
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
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>>>> This message was sent by Michael Mellinger  
>>>> ([address removed]) from
>>>> NY
>>>> Tech Meetup.
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>>>> profile:
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> --------------------­
>>> Kevin Galligan
>>> www.kagii.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> 0012 USA
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>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
> -- 
> --------------------­
> Kevin Galligan
> www.kagii.com
>
>
>
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