Name: Biweekly Discussion - Oliver Stone: Truth-Teller or Pseudo-Historian?
Start: 2023-07-09T13:00:00-04:00
End: 2023-07-09T15:00:00-04:00

Details

This is going to be an online meetup using Zoom. If you've never used Zoom before, don't worry — it's easy to use and free to join.

Click on the Zoom link below at the assigned date/time...

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OLIVER STONE: REVISIONIST TRUTH-TELLER OR PSEUDO-HISTORIAN... OR A BIT OF BOTH?

INTRODUCTION:

Many people know Oliver Stone as a Vietnam veteran turned movie director who was responsible for a series of hit films in the 1980s-90s like Platoon (1986), Wall Street (1987), Born on the Fourth of July (1989), The Doors (1991), JFK (1991), Natural Born Killers (1994), and Any Given Sunday (1999). His movies didn't experience quite as much success in the 21st century, but he still managed to direct some well-known films like Alexander (2004), World Trade Center (2006), W. (2008), Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps (2010), Savages (2012), and Snowden (2016). However, in recent years, Oliver Stone's work has shifted to producing documentaries about American foreign policy, which he considers to be driven by nationalistic hubris and the military-industrial complex. If you've seen Stone's name in the news in recent years, you're probably aware he's become highly controversial for releasing the documentary film JFK Revisited: Through the Looking Glass (2021) where he reiterated claims he made 30 years ago after the release of JFK (1991) about the CIA orchestrating the assassination of President John F. Kennedy to keep us in Vietnam, and he's also drawn heat for claiming that Russia didn't interfere in America's 2016 presidential election and that the U.S. is to blame for provoking Vladimir Putin's invasion of Ukraine, a position he staked out several years ago after interviewing Vladimir Putin in his documentaries Ukraine on Fire (2016), The Putin Interviews (2017), and Revealing Ukraine (2019).

In this meetup, we'll take a look at Oliver Stone's documentaries and try to assess whether he's a perceptive revisionist and contrarian truth-teller as it pertains to American history - particularly America's foreign policy - or whether he's essentially just a conspiracy theorist and "pseudo-historian" as many of his critics have alleged. We'll also consider whether Stone's views are perhaps understandable - if not entirely rational - in light of the disillusionment he faced as Vietnam veteran who came to see the war as a massive mistake, and this may have mixed with a suspicion of the "Deep State" that spread among the general public after the revelations of the Pentagon Papers, Watergate, and the Church Committee. In the case of Stone's oddly friendly relationships he's had with some of the dictators he's interviewed, we'll consider whether this indicates an idolization of authoritarian "strong men" or whether it's more related to his reflexive contrarianism, a rosy view of communist countries rooted in "whataboutism" (i.e. they've done some bad things, but what about American imperialism), and a false dichotomy between capitalism & socialism - i.e. if American capitalism is unjust & unsustainable, he may think the only other alternative is full communism with state ownership of major industries and a planned economy (neglecting the hybrid social-democratic capitalism in Western Europe).

RELEVANT MATERIALS FROM PAST MEETUPS:

In Nov. 2018, we had a meetup entitled "False Pretexts & Acts of War" and in Sections 2 & 3 we discussed whether or not the U.S. entry into WW2 & Vietnam were precipitated by conspiracies to allow the Pearl Harbor attack and fabricate the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Although Stone doesn't claim FDR allowed the Pearl Harbor attack to happen, he does argue that FDR's policies towards Japan provoked the attack, and that FDR wanted war with Germany & Japan and Pearl Harbor merely gave him the pretext he needed. In terms of Vietnam, Stone does present the Gulf of Tonkin incident as a false flag rather than a mistake, and thinks JFK would've already withdrawn U.S. troops from Vietnam by this point had he lived.

In June 2019, we had a meetup entitled "Neoliberals, Neocons & NWO 2.0" and in Sections 3 & 4 we looked at the whether the influence of neocon pundits and the Israel lobby on U.S. foreign policy is overstated or underestimated. Stone has made some controversial criticisms of the "Jewish domination of the media" after he was called out for downplaying the severity of the Holocaust.

Back in Oct. 2018, we had a meetup entitled "Globalization and Conspiracy Theories" and in Sections 2 & 3 we looked at some claims about U.S. interventions in Latin America in Naomi Klein's book The Shock Doctrine (2007) and John Perkins' book Confessions of an Economic Hitman (2004), particularly the idea that the U.S. and IMF engages in "debt-trap diplomacy" by pushing predatory loans on developing countries and making them contingent on "neoliberal" austerity measures that cut worker protections & social services, then uses the threats of a coup or military intervention if the client nation tries to back out. Stone makes these sorts of arguments in his documentary South of the Border (2009).

Back in April 2022, we had a meetup entitled "Disinformation in the Russia-Ukraine Conflict" where we discussed some conspiracy theories that had circulated for several years before and/or immediately after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, like the claim that the 2014 Maidan Revolution was a CIA-backed coup, not a popular uprising against president Viktor Yanukovych because he was seen as Putin's crony. This is relevant to today's discussion because Oliver Stone made this claim in his documentary Ukraine on Fire (2016).

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DIRECTIONS ON HOW TO PREPARE FOR OUR DISCUSSION:

The videos & articles you see linked below are intended to give you a basic overview of some of the major debates over the accuracy of Oliver Stone's historical documentaries. As usual, I certainly don't expect you to read all the articles prior to attending our discussion. The easiest way to prepare for our discussion is to just watch the numbered videos linked under each section - the videos come to about about 45 minutes total. The articles marked with asterisks are just there to supply additional details. You can browse and look at whichever ones you want, but don't worry - we'll cover the stuff you missed in our discussion.

In terms of the discussion format, my general idea is that we'll address the topics in the order presented here. I figure we'll spend about 30 minutes on each section.

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I. OLIVER STONE'S TAKE ON FDR, HITLER, STALIN & WORLD WAR 2:

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1a) Lex Fridman w/ Oliver Stone, "Would you interview Hitler?" (video - 3:37 min.)

1b) Patrick Bet-David w/ Oliver Stone, "Why Russia Really Won WW2" (video - 4:37 min.)

Oliver Stone & Peter Kuznick, "Without Pearl Harbor [and Truman], a different world?" (CNN)
Ed Pilkington, "Hitler? A scapegoat. Stalin? I can empathise. Oliver Stone stirs up history" (Guardian)
Eric Kurlander, "What in the World is Oliver Stone Talking About [regarding Hitler]?" (HNN)
Cathy Young, "‘Untold History’ air-brushes communist atrocities - Crimes against humanity committed by Soviet Russia shouldn't be viewed idealistically." (Press Herald)
Michael Moynihan, "Oliver Stone’s Junk History of the United States Debunked" (Daily Beast)
Oliver Stone & Peter Kuznick, "Oliver Stone Defends His History - reply to Michael Moynihan" (Daily Beast)
Ron Capshaw, "Henry Wallace, Oliver Stone’s Unsung Hero" (National Review)

II. OLIVER STONE'S TAKE ON JFK'S ASSASSINATION & THE VIETNAM WAR:

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2a) CBS News w/ Oliver Stone & Vincent Bugliosi, "JFK's murder and the persistence of conspiracy theories" (video - 6:31 min.)

2b) Lex Fridman w/ Oliver Stone, "If JFK lived, there would be no Cold War" (video - 2:47 min.)

2c) Bob Buzzanco w/ Noam Chomsky, "On the Legacy of JFK" (video - 6:43 min.)

Tim Weiner, "This Is Where Oliver Stone Got His Loony JFK Conspiracies From: The origin story for the CIA-killed-Kennedy myth is twistier than a magic bullet" (Rolling Stone)
Paul Combs, "Hollywood and Revisionist History: The Countless Conspiracy Theories in Oliver Stone’s Film ‘JFK' - A film that gets nearly all the facts wrong" (Medium)
Bill Rockwood, "Hollywood & History: The Debate Over 'JFK' - What obligation does Hollywood owe facts, accuracy, the truth?" (PBS transcript of 1992 debate at The Nation Institute with Norman Mailer, Edward J. Epstein, Nora Ephron & Oliver Stone)
Dorian Lynskey, "Oliver Stone’s seductive conspiracies: The director's JFK obsession was initially enticing" (Unherd)
David Reitzes, "JFK Conspiracy Theories at 50: How the Skeptics Got It Wrong and Why It Matters" (Skeptic)
Gary Aguilar, "JFK, Vietnam, and Oliver Stone" (History Matters)
Mark White, "Without Dallas: John F. Kennedy and the Vietnam War" (American Diplomacy)
AFP, "Fear of assassination kept Obama from confronting military: Oliver Stone" (Dawn)

III. OLIVER STONE'S TAKE ON FIDEL CASTRO, HUGO CHAVEZ & LATIN AMERICAN SOCIALISM AMID THE "PINK TIDE":

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3a) CBS News, "Oliver Stone Goes 'South of the Border'" (video - 5:36 min.)

3b) Democracy Now w/ Oliver Stone & Tariq Ali, "Latin America's Political Upheaval in 'South of the Border'" (video - 7:30 min, start at 0:34 & listen to 6:30)

Ann Louise Bardach w/ Oliver Stone, ["Oliver Stone’s Twist: Is the director’s latest film Looking for Fidel[, 2004] soft on Castro?"](https://tinyurl.com/bddyeeku) (Slate)
Leslie Felperin, "Oliver Stone: Castro complex - Oliver Stone is obsessed with powerful men, and in his new documentary gets up close and personal with Fidel Castro." (Independent)
Samuel Farber, "Arguing Over Cuba: Far too often, US intellectuals either defended Cuban Communism uncritically or fed into Washington propaganda." (Jacobin)
John Patterson, ["Oliver Stone nails Latin America's troubled relationship with the USA in South of the Border[, 2010]"](https://tinyurl.com/yc6b884t) (Guardian)
Jeffrey Tayler, "Oliver Stone’s Disgraceful Tribute to Hugo Chávez: How the renowned director's latest film distorts history and whitewashes an authoritarian thug." (Foreign Policy)
Cyril Mychalejko, "The media empire strikes back at Oliver Stone’s South of the Border" (Green Left)
Robert Naiman, "Vote: Dumbest Mistake in a 'South of the Border' Review!" (Daily Kos)
Anne Applebaum, "The New Fellow-Travelers: Why actors and models love to hang out with Hugo Chávez [in the Bush era]" (Slate)
Pedro E. Carrillo, "How today’s crisis in Venezuela was created by Hugo Chávez’s ‘revolutionary’ plan" (Conversation)

IV. OLIVER STONE'S TAKE ON VLADIMIR PUTIN, THE MAIDAN REVOLUTION & THE UKRAINE WAR:

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4a) Stephen Colbert w/ Oliver Stone, "Oliver Stone Spent Two Years Interviewing Vladimir Putin" (video - 7:24 min.)

4b) Patrick Bet-David w/ Oliver Stone, "Why Oliver Stone Blames The U.S. for Russia's Invasion of Ukraine" (video - 13:24 min, start at 5:00 & listen to 9:34)

Adam White, "Oliver Stone defends Russia’s ‘anti-gay propaganda’ law and asks Putin to be daughter’s godfather" (Independent)
James Poniewozik, "Oliver Stone's 'Putin Interviews': Flattery, but Little Skepticism" (NY Times)
Emily Tamkin, "Oliver Stone’s ‘Putin Interviews’ Will Teach You Little About Putin, and Even Less About Russia" (Foreign Policy)
Alex Shephard, "Natural Born Buddies: The Shared Ideology of Oliver Stone and Vladimir Putin - The new documentary about the Russian strongman exposes a thematic vein that runs through Stone's entire body of work." (New Republic)
Peter Kuznick, "Does Oliver Stone Have a Weak Spot for Dictators? [No, He's Merely Skeptical of U.S. Foreign Policy]" (HNN)
Tom Tapp, "Oliver Stone Criticizes 'Mr. Putin’s Aggression In Ukraine' After Previously Saying There Was 'No Proof' Russia Intended To Invade" (Deadline)

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Skeptics In The Pub - Philly

Biweekly Discussion - Oliver Stone: Truth-Teller or Pseudo-Historian?

Skeptics In The Pub - Philly

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