Biweekly Discussion - Myths & Misconceptions about Afghanistan

Name: Biweekly Discussion - Myths & Misconceptions about Afghanistan
Start: 2021-09-05T13:00:00-04:00
End: 2021-09-05T15:00:00-04:00

Hosted by Brian B.

Skeptics In The Pub - Philly

Details

This is going to be an online meetup using Zoom. If you've never used Zoom before, don't worry — it's easy to use and free to join.

Here's the link to the event: https://us02web.zoom.us/j/86242707023?pwd=TzlUbVJyYmhDQmE0cTI3TE5WekhtQT09

Meeting ID: 862 4270 7023
Passcode: 361446

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MYTHS, MISCONCEPTIONS & CONSPIRACY THEORIES ABOUT AFGHANISTAN

INTRODUCTION:

In this meetup, we'll explore various myths, misconceptions and conspiracy theories about Afghanistan that have proliferated over the last 20 years that have obscured the public's understanding of the hunt for Osama bin Laden and the unsuccessful U.S. attempt at nation building there.

In the first section, we'll look at some common misconceptions about Afghanistan's history. We'll examine the commonly held view of Afghanistan as the "graveyard of empires". This narrative claims that the region not only led to the demise of the Soviet Union after the Soviet-Afghan War, but also the British Empire after the three Anglo-Afghan Wars, and perhaps even some empires further back in history, like the Mongol Empire & Alexander the Great's empire. This view of Afghanistan tends to emphasize the country's mountainous terrain, fortress-like qalats & networks of caves, as well as its "barbarous" people who are divided by "impregnable clan loyalties" that will never allow the region to be "civilized". We'll contrast this view with the less common narrative that still occasionally crops up among some Boomers of Afghanistan as a "lost paradise" along the hippie trail of the 1960s & '70s, which used to boast bustling markets welcoming to foreigners, hookah parlors with great hashish, and liberated Afghan women who walked the streets of Kabul in miniskirts. We'll see how this ties in with older Afghans' memories of the period between 1963 and 1973 which some refers to as their country's "Golden Age" when the country had a semblance of political stability under a constitutional monarchy and Kabul was known as “the Paris of Central Asia.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graveyard_of_Empires
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hippie_trail
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Afghanistan

In the second section, we'll look at various conspiracy theories about the "real reasons" for U.S. involvement in Afghanistan, stretching from the Soviet-Afghan War in the 1980s to the invasion & occupation of Afghanistan after 2001 as part of the Global War on Terror. We'll start by looking at the CIA's role in arming & financing the "mujahideen" as part of "Operation Cyclone", from 1979 to 1989, prior to and during the military intervention by the USSR in support of the socialist People's Democratic Party of Afghanistan (PDPA). The PDPA had came to power through a military coup known as the Saur Revolution in 1978, ousting the government of Mohammad Daoud Khan, who had been leader of the 1973 Afghan coup d'état which overthrew the Afghan monarchy. As we'll see, many critics have argued that by sponsoring Islamic fundamentalists to fight the local socialist government & the Soviets, the U.S. essentially created the predecessors of the Taliban and al-Qaeda.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Cyclone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_CIA_assistance_to_Osama_bin_Laden

We'll also discuss some of the alleged motives for U.S. involvement in Afghanistan that don't involve fighting the spread of communism, namely a desire to either control the lucrative opium trade that originates with poppy farmers in Afghanistan or to facilitate the mining of the estimated $1 Trillion of largely untapped mineral resources that the country has, with the idea that the U.S. will "steal" these resources - especially lithium - that has a strategic importance due to its use in batteries needed by the tech industry.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_production_in_Afghanistan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Afghanistan

In the third section, we'll examine some of the myriad of conspiracy theories about the hunt for Osama bin Laden and the SEAL Team 6 raid on his secret compound in Abbotobad in 2011 that killed him. As we'll see, there's a wide range of conspiracy theories ranging from allegations that bin Laden had died many years prior to the 2011 raid, to theories that claim he's still alive today. Conspiracy theories about the 2011 raid also sometimes discuss alternative scenarios, like the journalist Seymour Hirsch's claim that Pakistan had kept bin Laden under house arrest since 2006, that the U.S. had learned of bin Laden's location through a Pakistani intelligence official (not tracking a courier), and that elements of the Pakistani military aided the U.S. in killing bin Laden. Wilder conspiracy theories claim that the members of SEAL Team Six who participated in the raid were later killed by the U.S. government under the guise of "training accidents" to cover up some secret. As we'll see, the source of many of the general public's doubts about bin Laden's death were fueled by the U.S. military's supposed disposal of his body at sea, the decision to not release any photographic or DNA evidence of bin Laden's death to the public, the contradicting accounts of the incident (with the official story on the raid appearing to change or directly contradict previous assertions), and the 25-minute blackout during the raid on bin Laden's compound during which a live feed from cameras mounted on the helmets of the U.S. special forces was cut off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osama_bin_Laden_death_conspiracy_theories
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seymour_Hersh#Death_of_Osama_bin_Laden

In the last section, we'll look at the NY Times' article in June of 2020 about "Russian bounties" being paid to Taliban by the GRU's Unit 29155 for killing U.S. troops. (As you may remember, these claims were called into question less than a year later in April-May of 2021 by multiple US news media outlets.) We'll see how this relates to the news media criticisms of Trump's negotiations with the Taliban in the summer of 2020, and allegations that the CIA orchestrated claims of "Russian bounties" as a hoax to foil the negotiations for withdrawal from Afghanistan. We'll also discuss Glenn Greenwald's recent allegations that the news media have suddenly become far more critical of Joe Biden not merely because of the bungled nature of the US troop withdrawal from Afghanistan, but because the US intelligence agencies
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_bounty_program
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Withdrawal_of_United_States_troops_from_Afghanistan_(2020–2021)

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DIRECTIONS ON HOW TO PREPARE FOR OUR DISCUSSION:

The videos & articles you see linked below are intended to give you a basic overview of some of the myths & misconceptions about Afghanistan, especially as it relates to the U.S. interventions there during the Soviet-Afghan War and the post-9/11 Global War on Terror. As usual, I certainly don't expect you to read all the articles & watch all the videos prior to attending our discussion. The easiest way to prepare for our discussion is to just watch the numbered videos linked under each section - the videos come to about about 48 minutes total. The articles marked with asterisks are just there to supply additional details. You can browse and look at whichever ones you want, but don't worry - we'll cover the stuff you missed in our discussion.

In terms of the discussion format, my general idea is that we'll address the topics in the order presented here. I've listed some questions under each topic heading to stimulate discussion. We'll do our best to address most of them, as well as whatever other questions members might have. I figure we'll spend about 30 minutes on each section.

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I. AFGHANISTAN AS A BARBAROUS "GRAVEYARD OF EMPIRES" AND/OR THE "PARIS OF CENTRAL ASIA" WITH HIPPIES, HASHISH & MINISKIRTS:

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1a) History Matters, "Is Afghanistan Really the Graveyard of Empires?" (video - 3:32 min.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jO1UXqXMI4I

1b) India Today, "Afghanistan's Golden Age: The Land Where Women's Rights Were At Par With Western Nations" (video - 2:02 min.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylScuPfTb_A

Tyler Dawson, "Is Afghanistan really a 'graveyard of empires'?"
https://nationalpost.com/news/is-afghanistan-really-a-graveyard-of-empires
Alexander Hainy-Khaleeli, "Why we need to stop calling Afghanistan 'The Graveyard of Empires'"
https://ajammc.com/2021/08/24/stop-calling-afghanistan-graveyard-empires/
Christian Caryl, "When Afghanistan Was Just a Stop on the ‘Hippie Trail’"
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/strange-rebels-excerpt_b_3427854
Dan Evon, "Are These Women Wearing Skirts in Kabul During the 1970s? Yes, but this image does not represent what life was like for the majority of Afghan women during that time."
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/women-skirts-kabul-70s/

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II. ALLEGATIONS ABOUT THE CIA'S ROLE IN CREATING THE TALIBAN & AL-QAEDA, THE FLOURISHING OF THE AFGHAN OPIUM TRADE, AND ALLEGED PLANS TO STEAL ITS MINERAL RESOURCES:

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2a) Real Stories, "How The USA Created The Taliban" (video - 5:52 min.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9j1H330Nmo

2b) Real Matters, "Unravelling the American Drug Cartel in Afghanistan" (video - 6:46 min.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF1vgGdfbrI

2c) Democracy Now, "Trump Considers Prolonging Afghan War to Secure $1 Trillion in Untapped Mineral Deposits" (video - 7:34 min, listen to 5:00)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2GaURn9OYA

Evan Koslof, "VERIFY: No, the U.S. government did not directly fund the Taliban as claimed online"
https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/verify/no-the-us-government-did-not-directly-fund-the-taliban-fact-check-afghanistan-cia-reagan-carter/65-fa07d053-aa77-4998-ad13-950bc6dc007e
Robert Farley, "Rand Paul’s Bin Laden Claim Is ‘Urban Myth’ - There’s no evidence the U.S. recruited, trained, armed or funded bin Laden in Soviet-Afghan war."
https://www.factcheck.org/2013/02/rand-pauls-bin-laden-claim-is-urban-myth/
Jon Greenberg, "Fact Check: Afghanistan has more hectares (of opium poppies) planted today than they had before we started this war." [Rating: True]
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2017/apr/04/ted-yoho/yoho-afghanistan-poppy-growth-way/
Justin Rowlatt, "How the US military's opium war in Afghanistan was lost"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-47861444
Peter Dale Scott, "Opium, the CIA and the Karzai Administration"
https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/125230
Cecil Adams, "Why don't we bomb Afghanistan's poppy fields?"
https://www.connectsavannah.com/savannah/why-dont-we-bomb-afghanistans-poppy-fields/Content?oid=3766602
Alan Macleod, "Geopolitics, profit, and poppies: how the CIA turned Afghanistan into a failed narco-state"
https://mronline.org/2021/06/29/geopolitics-profit-and-poppies-how-the-cia-turned-afghanistan-into-a-failed-narco-state/
Katie Drummond, "No, the U.S. Didn't Just 'Discover' a $1T Afghan Motherlode[in 2010]"
https://www.wired.com/2010/06/no-the-military-didnt-just-discover-an-afghan-mineral-motherlode/
Arif Rafiq, "The Plan to Exploit Afghanistan for Its Resources [in 2017] Is a Really Bad Idea: A contractor-led role in Afghanistan would confirm the narrative that America wants perpetual warfare and to rob the country of its riches."
https://nationalinterest.org/feature/the-plan-exploit-afghanistan-its-resources-really-bad-idea-21711
Ahmad Shah Katawazai, "Afghanistan’s Mineral Resources Are a Lost Opportunity and a Threat: Without a coherent strategy, Afghanistan’s vast mineral resources represent both a lost opportunity and a threat to national security."
https://thediplomat.com/2020/02/afghanistans-mineral-resources-are-a-lost-opportunity-and-a-threat/
Jerry Giordano, "A False Narrative About Afghan Lithium?"
https://ricochet.com/1042103/a-false-narrative-about-afghan-lithium/

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III. THE VARIOUS CONSPIRACY THEORIES ABOUT OSAMA BIN LADEN'S DEATH & THE FATE OF SEAL TEAM SIX:

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3a) TVNZ, "Matthew Dentith on the conspiracy theories surrounding the death of Osama bin Laden" (video - 3:57 min.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=33EyyucF_Tk

3b) CBC News w/ Seymour Hirsch, "Did White House lie about Osama bin Laden raid?" (video - 6:44 min.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBA_JPuJcos

3c) Inside Edition w/ Robert O'Neill, "Navy SEAL Who Killed Osama Bin Laden Slams Trump [for Spreading Conspiracy Theory]" (video - 1:57 min.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB5EaU9_z8s

Josh Dzieza, "6 Wackiest Osama bin Laden Conspiracy Theories"
https://www.thedailybeast.com/6-wackiest-osama-bin-laden-conspiracy-theories
Elizabeth Flock, "Osama bin Laden DNA confirms death, but photos are fake"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/blogpost/post/osama-bin-laden-dna-confirms-death-but-photos-are-fake-should-white-house-release-actual-photos/2011/05/02/AFez6naF_blog.html
David Corn, "Did Private Spy Shop Get US Intel From Bin Laden Raid Emails released by WikiLeaks suggest Stratfor may have gained access to highly sensitive material gathered from Osama bin Laden’s Abbottabad compound."
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/did-stratfor-access-bin-laden-intel/
Max Fisher, "The many problems with Seymour Hersh's Osama bin Laden conspiracy theory"
https://www.vox.com/2015/5/11/8584473/seymour-hersh-osama-bin-laden
Ben Mathis-Lilley, "What InfoWars Conspiracy Theories and Hersh’s Bin Laden Story Have in Common"
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/05/seymour-hersh-s-bin-laden-story-how-does-it-match-up-with-the-conspiracy-theories-on-infowars.html
Angelo Fichera & Saranac Hale Spencer, "Conspiracy Theory [Shared by Trump] Baselessly Claims Biden Had Navy SEALs Killed"
https://www.factcheck.org/2020/10/conspiracy-theory-baselessly-claims-biden-had-navy-seals-killed/
Alec Dent, "Fact Check: Was Osama bin Laden's Death Faked? No."
https://factcheck.thedispatch.com/p/was-osama-bin-ladens-death-faked

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IV. THE MEDIA'S REPORTING ON ALLEGATIONS OF "RUSSIAN BOUNTIES" ON U.S. TROOPS, TRUMP'S TALIBAN DEAL, AND BIDEN'S BUNGLED WITHDRAWAL:

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4a) The Hill w/ Saagar Enjeti, "'Bombshell' Russian Bounties Story Falls Apart, Revealing Media Lies" (video - 10:26 min, listen to 6:10)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6f2-70iy14

4b) Fox News w/ Glenn Greenwald, "Glenn Greenwald suggests CNN, liberal media is controlled by CIA [in angry reaction to Biden over bungled Afghanistan withdrawal]" (video - 5:16 min.)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgj0fjPQeyg

Salvador Rizzo, "Trump’s Four-Pinocchio interview on Russian bounties"
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/07/30/trumps-four-pinocchio-interview-russian-bounties/
Adam Rawnsley, et al., "U.S. Intel Walks Back Claim Russians Put Bounties on American Troops: It was a huge election-time story that prompted cries of treason. But according to a newly disclosed assessment, Donald Trump might have been right to call it a 'hoax.'"
https://www.thedailybeast.com/us-intel-walks-back-claim-russians-put-bounties-on-american-troops
Charlie Savage, "Glenn Greenwald’s Dishonest Conspiracy Theory on the CIA’s Russian Bounty Assessment"
https://charliesavage.com/2021/05/glenn-greenwalds-incoherent-conspiracy-theory-on-the-cias-russian-bounty-assessment/
Andrew C. McCarthy, "Pompeo’s Underwhelming Defense of the Trump–Taliban Agreement" https://www.nationalreview.com/2021/08/pompeos-underwhelming-defense-of-the-trump-taliban-agreement/
Rob Crilly, "CIA counter-terrorism chief joins long list of military officials saying Biden WAS warned Afghanistan could capitulate in days - after president said he 'can't recall' the warnings and Mark Milley saying no one saw it coming"
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9908755/Former-CIA-analyst-campaign-adviser-says-Biden-told-Afghan-forces-collapse-days.html
Branko Marcetic,"The Media Was in Love With Joe Biden — Until He Tried to End a War"
https://www.jacobinmag.com/2021/08/media-coverage-joe-biden-afghanistan-war-pullout-establishment-press
Eric Levitz, "The Media Manufactured Biden's Political 'Fiasco' in Afghanistan"
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/media-bias-biden-polls-approval-afghanistan-withdrawal.html
Jonathan Chait, "Why the Media Is Worse for Biden Than Trump"
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/why-the-media-is-worse-for-biden-than-trump.html
David Preiss, "Afghanistan, Policy Choices, and Claims of Intelligence Failure"
https://www.lawfareblog.com/afghanistan-policy-choices-and-claims-intelligence-failure

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Biweekly Discussion - Myths & Misconceptions about Afghanistan

Skeptics In The Pub - Philly

Details

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