addressalign-toparrow-leftarrow-right-10x10arrow-rightbackbellblockcalendarcameraccwcheckchevron-downchevron-leftchevron-rightchevron-small-downchevron-small-leftchevron-small-rightchevron-small-upchevron-upcircle-with-checkcircle-with-crosscircle-with-pluscontroller-playcredit-cardcrossdots-three-verticaleditemptyheartexporteye-with-lineeyefacebookfolderfullheartglobe--smallglobegmailgooglegroupshelp-with-circleimageimagesinstagramFill 1languagelaunch-new-window--smalllight-bulblinklocation-pinlockm-swarmSearchmailmediummessagesminusmobilemoremuplabelShape 3 + Rectangle 1ShapeoutlookpersonJoin Group on CardStartprice-ribbonprintShapeShapeShapeShapeImported LayersImported LayersImported Layersshieldstartickettrashtriangle-downtriangle-uptwitteruserwarningyahooyoutube

Seattle PHP User Group Message Board › Gotta love those RUBY guys who come to PHP meetups

Gotta love those RUBY guys who come to PHP meetups

A former member
Post #: 17
Ok, for the regulars who weren't at the last (and prepare your excuses as I intend to give you shit), we had the wonderful experience of having one of the people who runs the Seattle RUBY Meetup stop on by and preach about how great RUBY was and pass out business cards to invite people to the RUBY meetup.

Well I'm working on this thing known as 'keeping my mouth shut' ... as you know I fail 80% of the time but there were alot of newcomers to the meeting and didn't want them thinking anything wrong of the group as a whole.

Still I have to ask... for that kind of blatant, ballsy kind of self promotion, is this something that we should ask them to leave? What kind of policy should we have with this kind of thing? I mean, I understand that often we are going to talk about related languages and applications but I've been feeling more and more like now that the group has sort of formed, we are drifting in the wind and I find myself actually wanting to discuss PHP and not get off topic.

As a result of these meetings, I have taken a second look at SMARTY and PEAR and discovered some new things that I hadn't realized yet .

Anyway, do I have permission to kick people like that in the nads at a moments notice or should I give warning first? I mean, it's just plain rude. I wouldn't even do this to the .NET Meetup (though tempted I might be).

And can we come up with an agenda or topic of conversation for each meeting? We've got some great people and I'm sure that everyone has something to share.
A former member
Post #: 17
Ok, for the regulars who weren't at the last (and prepare your excuses as I intend to give you shit), we had the wonderful experience of having one of the people who runs the Seattle RUBY Meetup stop on by and preach about how great RUBY was and pass out business cards to invite people to the RUBY meetup.

I think *good* developers tend to use more than one programming language. I for one have taken a good, long look at Ruby, and I don't think it was out of place for a Ruby developer to come in and discuss Ruby as compared to PHP. Particularly since the Ruby meetup is held in the same place.

But I tested him a little in the early parts of that discussion by saying some good things about Ruby. A polite guest responds to that by saying good things about his host's language of choice, even if he has to do a little stretching. When he didn't bother, I pretty much pigeonholed him as a language bigot, which IMO is just about the most worthless brand of developer there is. So while I don't have a problem with Ruby developers, I had something of a problem with THAT developer.

Still I have to ask... for that kind of blatant, ballsy kind of self promotion, is this something that we should ask them to leave? What kind of policy should we have with this kind of thing?

I say let them come. We have nothing to fear from Ruby; PHP and Ruby are running side-by-side on my server, but I'm not going to give up PHP for Ruby anytime soon. I think any developer who uses one and only one language is just being stupid, and when he stops looking at other languages altogether he goes tumbling into the abyss of loserdom. I think we can all recognise a loser when we see one, so let's just trust everyone to know who the losers are and ignore them.

I mean, I understand that often we are going to talk about related languages and applications but I've been feeling more and more like now that the group has sort of formed, we are drifting in the wind and I find myself actually wanting to discuss PHP and not get off topic.

I feel like the group is sort of practice-heavy. It all seems to be very focused on building a system that does X, but rarely questions whether X is the right thing to do or when exactly a company might need X, which are the questions I personally find interesting. I can usually answer "how do I do X" with a web search or two, and I'd expect most of the rest of us can, too. There's a lot of what we *are* doing, and not much of what we COULD or SHOULD be doing.

So I'd like to see some broadening of horizons in the group. It seems very much like we're all locked into our own little boxes of what we do and how we do it, so it might be productive to examine the differences there; I get a very strong "what is that to ME?" vibe in most of the conversations we have in the group. Joe's cursory discussion of PEAR might be useful to expand into a presentation of how PEAR can help developers with specific aspects of a project. It might be useful to ask in which scenarios PHP or Ruby would be the more desirable language, and to do a solid analysis of that question. But if all we're looking at is how-to, the discussion is a little too special purpose to be of general interest.

That's just me, of course. What would other people like to see in future meetups?
A former member
Post #: 1
I think *good* developers tend to use more than one programming language. I for one have taken a good, long look at Ruby, and I don't think it was out of place for a Ruby developer to come in and discuss Ruby as compared to PHP. Particularly since the Ruby meetup is held in the same place.

...Especially when said ruby developer was sitting nearby eating dinner and overheard some interesting discussion... It was obvious you guys were some sort of users group, there are several that meet there now. I should point out that there was no "no strangers or outside viewpoints allowed" sign as well.

But I tested him a little in the early parts of that discussion by saying some good things about Ruby. A polite guest responds to that by saying good things about his host's language of choice, even if he has to do a little stretching. When he didn't bother, I pretty much pigeonholed him as a language bigot, which IMO is just about the most worthless brand of developer there is. So while I don't have a problem with Ruby developers, I had something of a problem with THAT developer.

I've got about 30 or so languages under my belt, last time I counted. The only reason why I didn't say anything positive about PHP (as I admitted at the meeting) was that I'd never used PHP. Ever. The main reason for that is because I've simply never needed to. I've avoided installing it on my servers because PHP4 and PHP5 are both in the top 5 largest/most-complex ports in FreeBSD's ports tree. I didn't want to maintain port dependencies that much.

I say let them come. We have nothing to fear from Ruby; PHP and Ruby are running side-by-side on my server, but I'm not going to give up PHP for Ruby anytime soon. I think any developer who uses one and only one language is just being stupid, and when he stops looking at other languages altogether he goes tumbling into the abyss of loserdom. I think we can all recognise a loser when we see one, so let's just trust everyone to know who the losers are and ignore them.

As far as pigeonholing me and calling me a loser and the like... Of course, you can make any rush judgments you want. You barely met me, after all. But based on one datapoint? You simply can't come to your conclusions soundly with only one datapoint. I will certainly admit that I am biased towards OO languages, based on my background and how my brain is wired.

As far as Owen's original post. I'm not going to address the majority of it. Nothing I could possibly say could help someone that wound up and offended by my mere presence. I certainly didn't mean to offend anyone... I know my claim about my mindcamp programming challenge was bold. It was meant to be, both then (at mindcamp) and now. And I stand by it. But there is a long way to go from bold to offensive. Maybe if you don't want strangers coming in with outside viewpoints you shouldn't hold your meetings in a public forum like Red-Line.

Ryan Davis
http://www.zenspider....­
A former member
Post #: 2
To the question about rails and scaling...

I grossly misrepresented 43things' current traffic. I said something like 2m hits / month. That WAS true at one point. They are now getting a bit more than a 1m hits / day. Same architecture (2 webservers, 1 db).

Sorry for the stale data.

Ryan Davis
http://www.zenspider....­
A former member
Post #: 19
This is the kind of crap I was talking about. It's like he is trying to start his own personal flame war in our forums. Plus he openly admitted to spotting that we were using the same space as his RUBY users group and deciding to check us out.

Now he acts like it was completely by accident? Please. Like I said before, I tried to be polite but found him to be impolite, presumptious and arrogant and perhaps turned me off RUBY altogether.
A former member
Post #: 19
...Especially when said ruby developer was sitting nearby eating dinner and overheard some interesting discussion... It was obvious you guys were some sort of users group, there are several that meet there now. I should point out that there was no "no strangers or outside viewpoints allowed" sign as well.

Exactly. Opinions may differ on whether your *behavior* at the meeting was appropriate, but your PRESENCE at the meeting was absolutely appropriate. I consider your behavior perfectly appropriate; I did not personally LIKE it, but IMO there was nothing particularly unacceptable or outrageous about it. Owen disagrees with me.

As far as pigeonholing me and calling me a loser and the like... Of course, you can make any rush judgments you want. You barely met me, after all. But based on one datapoint?

You said you could "outcode anyone here". The only thing you knew about us was that you use Ruby and we use PHP. You have never used PHP. So you have judged your language to be better than ours without any rational basis for that judgement. Making judgements without a rational basis is bigotry. Ergo, you are a language bigot.

Looks sound to me.

In my opinion, you're a preacher. You don't really care what we think; you only care whether we agree with you. The end of the table where you originally sat did not agree with you, so you chose instead to go stand at the other more agreeable end of the table. Likewise, your arguments in this forum boil down to adolescent dick-waving, pulling out the numbers and statistics you think will impress us while denying and ridiculing our own statements.

This is the behavior of youth. Whether it makes you a loser is up to the individual observer, who can make that determination on his own terms. Whether you grow up, and when, is up to you.
A former member
Post #: 20
Well said Caliban. Also, I'd like to point out that no one called him a 'loser'. In fact, there was no name calling at all and it was as polite as could be expected.

My only objection was I found the exchange rude and his presumptious nature and attitude juvenile. Other than that, I have no problem with RUBY. I in fact think most languages will evolve to be more RUBY-esque.

However, his approach in trying to convert will definitely delay my uptake of the language; you'd probably be happy to know that now MONO is part of Redhat, I'll probably be taking up C# next. You can deliver your 'I told you so's to me personally at the next meeting :)
A former member
Post #: 21
Maybe if you don't want strangers coming in with outside viewpoints you shouldn't hold your meetings in a public forum like Red-Line.

Actually, it's an open forum so we freely accept everyone from noobs to god-like omniscient coders. And as such, unless we start being exclusive, we will get the occassional asshole as well who does not understand the concept of what the group is about and feels the need to usurp it. We lovingly take the time to flame them (should we feel the need) especially when they issue statements of self importance whilst throwing out their chest and thumping it wildly with their fists.

Should the out of control primate feel it necessary to continue when not realizing their actions to be irresponsible or incorrigible, we respond with an ancient ritual of fesces hurling.

Don't bitch on these forums if you forget to duck. Otherwise we'll have to start calling you Ilias 2.
A former member
Post #: 20
Well said Caliban. Also, I'd like to point out that no one called him a 'loser'.

I think he's probably referring to my statement that we should trust people to recognise losers on their own. While I didn't specifically call him a loser, he may have felt the comment was directed at him.

You can deliver your 'I told you so's to me personally at the next meeting :)

You'll probably hate it and tell me the only reason it works for me is that I'm "magic". ;p
Powered by mvnForum

People in this
Meetup are also in:

Sign up

Meetup members, Log in

By clicking "Sign up" or "Sign up using Facebook", you confirm that you accept our Terms of Service & Privacy Policy