Plato’s Greater Hippias: The Limits Of Knowing and Not Knowing

In the drama of Plato’s dialogue, we see a playful yet ever-logical Socrates engage the sophist Hippias in a discussion on the nature of kalon – the fine or beautiful – itself. In his responses and assertions, Hippias appears at times laughably boastful and contradictory, and incapable of self-reflection. Clearly, Hippias – who is dismissive of ancient knowledge and full of conceit for his ability to extract large fees from students for his ‘teaching’ – is unaware of the limitations of his own knowledge of things.

As wise as Hippias claims to be, Socrates is unable to extract from him a definition of the thing that we call “the fine” or “the beautiful”. Hippias, nonetheless, continues to cast judgment on a range of things as either fine or foul. What gives Hippias this power of judgment, when he does not know the measure by which he judges? How is it possible to say a thing is more like one extreme of “fine” or its opposite extreme of “foul”, without knowing the qualities of either? We might mock Hippias for the circularity of his arguments – as Socrates does in response to one: “Good god! Then the fine is not good, nor the good fine” – and yet we see examples today of sophists like Hippias who fail to acknowledge what they do not know.

In Plato’s Greater Hippias we encounter a number of themes that are addressed in his other dialogues, among them the Cratylus and the Theaetetus, both of which question whether “man is the measure of things” as the sophist Protagoras claimed. It seems that in his thinking, Hippias has great difficulty in the measurement of things. In the Cratylus, Socrates explores the two limits that define the beginning and end of any object of thought – which we call “thing” – that differentiate it from any other thing. In the Greater Hippias, we see Socrates cause the sophist to move the limits of the thing called “fine” to the point of illogic.

When confronted by sophists claiming knowledge, do we feel like Socrates? “I wander around and I’m always getting stuck,” he declares. “If I make a display of how stuck I am to you wise men, I get mud-spattered by your speeches when I display it.” In our discussion of the Greater Hippias, we might find some means to clear the mud of confusion and define for ourselves the true – and beautifully fine – limits of things.

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Our discussion will be recorded in voice only without video, using first name as it appears on your screen profile, and broadcast on the “Plato’s Pod” Podcast for those who would like to share in our knowledge. We can go anywhere the group wishes, for which some suggested themes will be offered. Wherever our discussion leads, Plato, without a doubt, would have imagined no better way than in dialogue for knowledge – the account of the reasons why – to multiply its connections. We welcome the sharing of all perspectives, whether you are new to or experienced with Plato. Recordings of previous episodes of the Plato’s Pod podcast are at https://open.spotify.com/show/53Zvjr7avMylQgNqfqBxlk?si=7b50d100bfc4474d and other podcast platforms.

After the podcast recording ends, participants are welcome to remain for “Plato’s Café”, a casual half-hour discussion of your choice of themes from any of Plato’s works, or philosophy in general.

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THREE DAYS BEFORE THE MEETUP: We will post questions and themes for discussion on a shared drive for participants at https://1drv.ms/u/s!AqvPwkIofv4UaFldrPpbva3VSXI?e=3Y7PjP, where you can also find topics explored in our previous meetups. Our meetings will generally be scheduled every two weeks on Sunday at 2 p.m. eastern. During our dialogue, participants are encouraged to relate their comments to Plato's text, referring to the Stephanus number for the passage so others can follow in the reading. Participants are also encouraged to read the text aloud for the meaning of the written word to resonate.

There are many translations of Plato's works available, of varying quality. Your public library will have multiple editions. A free translation of the Greater Hippias (or Hippias Major) is available on Perseus at http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus:text:1999.01.0180. Participants in our entire series might be interested in purchasing Plato: Complete Works (https://www.amazon.ca/Plato-Complete-Works/dp/0872203492/).

The Meetup will take place on Zoom. Please RSVP to access the Zoom link at your Meetup account.