Re: Kotlin and Ceylon

From: Russel W.
Sent on: Saturday, October 5, 2013 5:08 PM

On Fri,[masked] at 18:16 +0000, [address removed] wrote:
> Hi Russel,
> You've mentioned Kotlin and Ceylon 4 or 5 times in that last couple of
> days. I'd like to fork a discussion to learn more about people's
> experiences with either. Two keywords to start with:
> Simplicity
> Tooling

Tooling first:

Kotlin is a JetBrains led thing, so IntelliJ IDEA with Kotlin plugin.
However the compiler can be run from the command line for Emacs addicts
like me.  There is an Emacs mode for Kotlin.

Ceylon folks think that an IDE is essential, have built things assuming
Eclipse with the Ceylon plugin. No support for Emacs, but there is a
command line for emergencies.

Simplicity is a problem term since there are no absolutes. Kotlin tries
to take lessons from Java, Scala, Groovy Python and Go to create a Java
harmonious static language that emphasizes minimalism of syntax with
maximizing expressiveness — so not many symbols to write to express

Ceylon centres on many of the same issues as Kotlin (not surprising when
both have the goal of replacing Java) but is also addressing modularity
directly in the language. Although Ceylon can call Java Platform APIs,
it is not a class file and jar file system, it has it's own way of doing

I've only done small amounts of work in both these languages, but they
feel different and I like them both. And I think they are candidates as
Java replacements.

Dr Russel Winder      t: [masked]   voip: sip:[address removed]
41 Buckmaster Road    m: [masked]   xmpp: [address removed]
London SW11 1EN, UK   w:  skype: russel_winder

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