About us
This group is for people who enjoy discussing interesting topics such as culture, history, philosophy, science, and religion. It is for those who are willing to question their own ideas and open to new and differing ideas.
As host, I will occasionally use Socratic irony; posing provocative questions to challenge your thinking and take you out of your comfort zone. If you are easily offended or overly sensitive, this might not be the forum for you.
Some meetings will be face-to-face on the North Shore of Auckland, while others will be online.
The in-person meetings are likely to be monthly on the North Shore of Auckland (probably near Smales Farm), at times to suit potential attendees (possibly Monday evening or weekend lunchtime).
The online meetings will use Microsoft Teams, which will work in a browser but will works better using the app, which you can download from:
Download Microsoft Teams Desktop and Mobile Apps | Microsoft Teams
Upcoming events
6

Movie Night & Discussion: "AN INCONVENIENT STUDY"
St Columba Centre, 40 Vermont St Ponsonby, Auckland, NZRock The Vote NZ presents "AN INCONVENIENT STUDY".
In 2016, journalist Del Bigtree issued a challenge to the head of infectious disease at one of the most prestigious medical institutions in the world: conduct the most thorough vaxxed vs. unvaxxed study that has ever been done. The expert took up the challenge and ran the study to prove Del wrong. That study never saw the light of day... until now.
Rated 8.5/10 on IMDB
This powerful documentary will be followed by a discussion of the causes and consequences of modern medicine.
$8 in advance: Go to Rock the Vote NZ
- click 'Check Availability'
- click 'Next'
and complete the online booking form.
Rated 9.3/10 on IMDB
Note, this is a special edit of the film to reduce the running time to 1 hour 40min
For previews of our movies see the Rock The Vote website
Come early for refreshments and previews of future movies.
### St Columba Centre, Ponsonby
$10 On the Door
rockthevotenzparty@gmail.com11 attendees
Deep Thinkers Online - The Right to Die vs The Right to Live
·OnlineOnlineAssisted dying legislation, also known as Medical Assistance in Dying (MAiD), physician-assisted suicide (PAS), or euthanasia, refers to laws allowing competent adults to receive medical help to end their lives under specific conditions. This typically includes terminal illness with a short prognosis (e.g., 6 months) or, in more permissive systems, unbearable suffering from grievous and irremediable conditions (terminal or not).
Distinctions matter: "Assisted dying" often means patients self-administer lethal medication (like in Oregon), while "euthanasia" involves a doctor administering it (common in Canada, Netherlands, Belgium). Proponents frame it as compassion and autonomy; opponents see risks to vulnerable people, medical ethics, and societal values
Pros (Arguments in Favor)
- Autonomy and Bodily Self-Determination: Competent adults should control their end-of-life decisions, especially when facing terminal decline. Forcing continued suffering violates personal liberty. Many supporters argue this is a fundamental right, akin to refusing life-sustaining treatment.
- Relief from Unbearable Suffering: Even with excellent palliative care, some experience intractable pain, loss of dignity, loss of autonomy, or inability to enjoy life. Assisted dying provides a compassionate, controlled "good death" rather than prolonged agony or risky, violent suicide.
- Reassurance and Peace of Mind: Knowing the option exists (even if not used) reduces anxiety for terminally ill people and families. Usage rates remain low (often <1% of deaths in restrictive systems), suggesting it mainly offers security.
- Reduces Burden on Families and Systems: It can shorten prolonged, expensive dying processes and allow planned goodbyes. Proponents note it doesn't appear to disproportionately affect the poor or minorities in places like Oregon.
- Regulation is Possible: Strict safeguards (multiple doctors, waiting periods, mental competency checks, terminal prognosis) have worked without widespread abuse in some jurisdictions. Data from Oregon shows stable demographics (mostly older, white, educated, cancer patients) and low complication rates.
Cons (Arguments Against)
- Slippery Slope and Expansion: Initial narrow laws (terminal illness only) often broaden. In the Netherlands and Belgium, euthanasia expanded to psychiatric conditions, autism, dementia, "tired of life," and minors. In Canada, MAiD went from "reasonably foreseeable" death (2016) to non-terminal conditions (2021), now ~5.1% of all deaths in 2024 (16,499 cases). Track 2 (non-terminal) is growing, with plans (delayed) for sole mental illness eligibility.
- Reasons cited frequently include "loss of ability to engage in meaningful activities" and feeling like a burden. Critics argue normalization shifts medicine from "do no harm" to ending life as a solution for suffering.
- Risk to Vulnerable Groups: Elderly, disabled, poor, mentally ill, or those with inadequate palliative care may feel pressured (subtly or overtly) due to family burden, costs, or societal messaging that certain lives are less worth living. In Canada, roughly half of MAiD recipients report feeling like a burden.
- Undermines Palliative Care and Medicine: Legal assisted dying can reduce investment in better pain management and hospice. It challenges the doctor-patient relationship and the principle against killing. Many doctors and medical associations historically oppose it on ethical grounds.
- Diagnostic and Coercion Risks: Prognoses are imperfect (some outlive 6-month estimates). Depression or treatable conditions can influence requests. Complications occur (regurgitation, prolonged dying), and regret is possible but hard to measure post-death.
- Societal Message: It may devalue disabled or dependent lives and normalize suicide as a response to hardship, potentially affecting mental health attitudes broadly.
Evidence from Practice
- Restrictive Models (Oregon/Washington): Low usage (~0.8-0.9% of deaths), mostly cancer, stable over time, few documented abuses.
- Permissive Models (Canada, Netherlands, Belgium): Much higher and rising percentages, broader eligibility, ongoing expansions. Canada shows the fastest growth among Western nations.
Nuanced Takeaway
Assisted dying involves genuine trade-offs between individual autonomy/compassion in extreme cases and protecting societal norms around life, vulnerability, and medicine. Evidence shows that tightly restricted laws (terminal illness + strong safeguards) have fewer expansion issues, while broader "suffering-based" criteria correlate with rapid growth and mission creep. Outcomes depend heavily on culture, healthcare access, and enforcement.Well-designed laws with robust palliative care investment might minimize harms, but perfect safeguards are difficult. The debate ultimately hinges on whether the benefits for some outweigh risks to many, and whether certain suffering justifies state-sanctioned ending of life. Different societies have reached different conclusions based on values.
The online meetings will use Microsoft Teams, which will work in a browser but will works better using the app, which you can download from:
Download Microsoft Teams Desktop and Mobile Apps | Microsoft Teams
For a guide see:
Get started with Microsoft Teams - Microsoft Support8 attendees
Deep Thinkers Online - The Age of Stupidity
·OnlineOnline"Stupid is as stupid does"
Please read the following articles to join the conversation:
How Did We get So Dumb?
How Did We Get So Dumb - Part 2
How Did We Get So Dumb? - Part 3
How Did We Get So Dumb? - Part 4
How Do We Get Smarter? (Part 1)
How Do We Get Smarter? (Part 2)The online meetings will use Microsoft Teams, which will work in a browser but will works better using the app, which you can download from:
Download Microsoft Teams Desktop and Mobile Apps | Microsoft Teams
For a guide see:
Get started with Microsoft Teams - Microsoft Support3 attendees
Past events
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