
What we’re about
Civilized Conversation seeks to revive the lost art of face-to-face thoughtful conversation. We're a diverse group of people from different parts of the political spectrum and varying backgrounds. Yet, we believe that it is possible to discuss controversial topics honestly and respectfully, as well as passionately.
We meet every Monday evening (except the last Monday of each month) at the same time and place to discuss a pre-set topic. Usually, it's related to politics or public affairs, but some topics are about religion, history, world politics, or even philosophy or science. Our format is an informal roundtable discussion by all present, with a moderator.
WHEN: Mondays 7pm - 9pm (except last Monday of each month).
WHERE: Panera Cafe, 5620 Balboa Ave., at the front of the giant shopping mall at Balboa and Genesee. Lots of free parking.
SIGN UP to the group and to attend specific mtgs at Meet-up.com.
Upcoming events
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Are the USA and China sliding towards war - or accommodation?
Panera Bread, 5620 Balboa Avenue, San Diego, CA, USWell, Presidents Trump and Xi just signed a kind of temporary truce in their trade war. By most accounts we were losing, anyway. But it is not over. Mercantilist trade hostilities may resume anytime. Our trade conflicts with Beijing are very real. But, since Trump started the trade war it is at least theoretically capable of being unwound quickly. I will update everybody on the latest developments to open our meeting.
China's conflicts with the USA and the West go far deeper than Trump's tariff tantrums, unfortunately. China's foreign policy has grown more and more aggressive since Xi Jinping consolidated power a decade ago. Threats against Taiwan and a huge military buildup. Aggression against multiple neighbors, both on land (e.g., India) and at sea (Philippines, Vietnam, others). China now routinely uses its economic and financial clout to challenge the West.
Some say China's goal is to grow its soft power and hard power and to use both to mold a new world order that is more authoritarian-friendly, with China at its center. Others say Beijing is less ambitious and more realistic than that. Either way, listing all of the Sino-U.S. conflicts and potential flashpoints would take all day.
At the same time, under Donald Trump U.S. global influence is in rapid decline, and our allies are making other plans. I believe we are entering a very dangerous time internationally. Miscalculations, miscommunications, the temptations of new weaponry and financial tools, or just plain reckless gambles could easily lead, if not to direct war, then to local or regional wars and/or economic ruin. China is confident. Trump pretends to be confident. Ack!
OTOH, neither side wants war. Many analysts believe China's rise can be accommodated peacefully if we want to and are willing to recognize that global politics does not have to be a zero-sum game. Lastly, there will be both a post-Xi and a post-Trump transition, and maybe the odds of open conflict will fall when they occur.
For CivCon, I think our best approach to a complicated topic like this (sorry, but some important things are also complex) has to start with a basic understanding of what has been happening in Sino-U.S. conflicts and the big picture relationship. My opening remarks on 11/17 will focus mainly on that. The readings provided give details/POV on the big picture of China's successes, stability, and goals.
Optional Backgrounders –
0 World Affairs Discussion Group, David’s other Meetup, did a related topic just last month. Will the China Model outcompete and overtake democratic capitalism? See intro & these key links:
- Yes it will. China will dominate the 21st century because its massive success will endure. (Free to read but you must give Foreign Affairs Mag. your email.)
-- No. China is NOT an existential threat to the Western-dominated global order. Shorter version of this POV.
0 CivCon did Monday's topic 2022 (after Trump I but pre-Trump II). USA and China – Containment, Coexistence, or war? Key link: China doesn’t want war; it wants to be a free-riding, status quo superpower.
0 Trump: He is ceding the future to China out of foolishness, says Krugman. A conservative economist says the same thing even more bluntly.
0 War: We should discuss chances of deliberate AND accidental war, plus the dangers of war during autocrat succession periods (in BOTH China and USA).11 attendees
Past events
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