
What we’re about
Come discuss and debate the issues of the day, grand policy ideas, historical conundrums or anything else related to politics or policies, whether domestic or international, and sometimes even venturing beyond these domains. We will talk about what everyone’s talking about, and also the things others stay away from, but are wondering about. This is a place that at least tolerates every point of view, except insults or threats to fellow explorers. That said, gaslighting and beating around the bush are frowned upon… but understood as the necessary evils in the quest to mutual understanding and exchange of information and ideas.
Upcoming events (1)
See all- Is Protesting ICE Raids by Interfering with Arrests Justified?Link visible for attendees
The Trump administration has in recent weeks and months stepped up ICE raids across the country in its effort to round up and deport illegal immigrants. This activity is increasingly meeting with protests by immigrants and citizens that often become violent. The problem gained national prominence on June 6, when protests in Los Angeles after ICE raided several locations devolved into riots and resulted in clashes with LAPD and immigration agents. After the pattern was repeated and expanded the following day in Paramount and Compton, President Trump responded by federalizing and deploying around 2,000 National Guardsmen. In subsequent days, their number would grow to 4,000. The rioters, at various times, threw rocks, cement blocks, scooters and other objects at police, ICE and other federal agents, injuring at least 17. They set cars and other objects on fire, put up barricades, vandalized city streets and buildings, and looted local businesses. ICE and LAPD made 575 arrests, and 3 protesters were injured. By July 15, the protests in LA had largely died down and National Guard troops were withdrawn. However, they have inspired additional anti-ICE protests in other cities, such as New York, Chicago and Dallas. California remains one of the epicenters, as demonstrated by the violent July 10 clashes during the ICE raids of two cannabis farms. The protestors gathered at Camarillo, CA tried to prevent ICE agents from approaching the location, threw rocks at them and their vehicles, and one appeared to be fire a gun. More than 360 people were arrested, some with prior serious criminal records. The government said the original reason for targeting the farm was to investigate the potential child labor and human trafficking. 14 immigrant children were found on the property.
In virtually all these protests, the people assembled get in the way and impede immigration enforcement agents, preventing or slowing down their attempt to apprehend illegal immigrants. Often, clashes and violence of varying intensity ensues. Both situations constitute criminal violations of federal law, 18 U.S. Code § 111, to be specific. But are they morally justified as a form of civil disobedience?
The proponents of this argument may point out that, for all the stated intent by immigration enforcement that they will prioritize deporting the criminals and security threats among the millions of illegal immigrants, many of them have committed no crime other entering the country illegally. Some have resided here for decades, are gainfully employed, often doing jobs that Americans won’t do. They pay taxes, have families and children. It is inhumane and un-American to round them up and deport from what has effectively become their home. Deportations can foster a climate of fear and distrust within immigrant communities, making individuals less likely to report crimes, seek medical care, or participate in public services and community activities, which undermines overall community well-being and safety. Moreover, the U.S. Constitution guarantees due process rights to all “persons”, not just citizens. This includes the right of illegal immigrants to defend themselves in court and, in some cases, the right to legal representation. Expedited removal processes often violate these fundamental rights.
The critics might counter that, aside of interfering with federal officers performing their job duties being a crime, it can escalate situations, potentially leading to injuries for protesters, agents, or those being targeted in the raid. It also will typically not ultimately prevent the arrests or deportations from occurring and can instead lead to more arrests of protesters. Impeding raids can be seen as subverting the rule of law and encouraging illegal activity. Protests and rioting against ICE is likely to inspire armed assaults against immigration agents even when they are not conducting riots, as we have already seen happen twice in Texas. If obstructing and resisting immigration authorities becomes a trend in the nation, it may have grave consequences to national security and peace in the nation overall.
So what do you think, and why? Come share your opinion and reasoning with other passionate, but respectful, debaters. Or just sit back and listen up – your choice.
We will have a designated speaker for each side of the argument who will give the opening and closing statements, and a floor discussion in between. Zoom credentials will be provided on the day of the debate.
between.